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Old 06-01-2017, 00:33   #1
JamesIkanov
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Question "Outside" Training courses/ "experience"

I have a simple question (at least, I hope it'll be simple)

The short version of the background here is that I've been working myself up to talk to a recruiter about an 18X contract. Still figuring that part out due to some personal concerns. (serious girlfriend, probably going to need at least one waiver, etc etc) but I have some questions before I even get that far. This is just one of them for now, and I can hopefully find the answers to my other questions in due time.

The question proper takes a bit more dissection. For starters, I am and will for the forseeable future continue to be a gun nut. For my own personal benefit and education I'm interested in taking a distance learning course on "Advanced AR-15 Armoring" while I try to get myself in better shape. I just completed my fourth AR15 build, so I figure I might as well learn all the ins and outs instead of just winging it some more. I'm also somewhat interested in taking a pistol course from a pretty good local guy, also for my own personal benefit. I like shooting pistol and I've shot some steel IPSC type matches at a local range a few times. I'm by no means great but I quite like practicing and it's one of the few solid interests I've kept up since I was an anklebiter. It's good fun (except when it's -15F or less, then it's just better than watching the tube).

I have read and heard that many professional/government organizations view applicants seeking out this kind of training as a big red flag. I don't want to be "that guy". Whether I succeed or fail at making it through the 18X pipeline, if I get into it at all, I'm just interested in learning this stuff for me. I'm also a bit concerned because I have had an interest in amateur pyrotechnics and the chemistry of energetic materials.

I know that knowing this stuff is in no way comparable to what the Army would actually want to teach me, but I'm concerned it would muck up my odds by presenting a disqualifying red flag. Does anyone have any insight in to whether having certs or experience related to this stuff beforehand is viewed as a +/- or just not even considered? I'm not planning on mentioning it (I really really want to avoid being "that guy") but I could see it coming up.

I've had similar thoughts about my intention to try to pick up a language (French specifically, due to it's commonality).
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:52   #2
Pete
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Good grief, what a long drawn out question.

Learn what you want before you join but remember - you will be expected to perform as you are taught in the course.

Some instructor tells you how to do something and you reply with "Well, I'm a ......" and your stay might be shorter than you think.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:56   #3
1stindoor
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^^James, that's solid advice right there. There's tons of civilian courses that are somewhat aligned with military courses. Try never to tell the military instructors you're "already qualified because..." Perfect example would be civilian skydiver vs MFF, or PADI/MAUI vs CDQC.

But as I'm sure you already know...focus on the 25m target first....enlist and try to pass Basic.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:46   #4
Chucko
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No matter how many guns you built and how much knowledge of guns or explosives (although fun) before you go in will not help at all. They will tell you what they want you to know. At least you are showing an interest in things that will help and most guys want to know..

If you are worried about waivers already you will probably have a difficult time because you may not be able to commit. There will be so many trip wires along the way through basic, AIT and jump school that you need to have a driven focused attitude toward commitment.

Go and see what the recruiter says. After a few tests he might say you should be an officer or something on the enlisted schedule. It s hard to say unless you have some concrete scores down from testing. Then decide your next step.

Until then, don't shoot yourself in the foot.
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Old 06-01-2017, 15:01   #5
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Get off of your ass and talk to the recruiter. Would/coulda/shoulda don't count for squat, just like all of that weapons training pre-military as it will not help you at all if you do not sign up and make it over all of the hurdles in the real training.

Talk to the recruiter before you do anything else.
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Old 06-01-2017, 15:13   #6
Astronomy
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Taking firearms training from reputable providers is never a bad thing, but is almost immaterial to your success or failure through the 18MOS pipeline. For an aspiring 18X, it's really not important in the grand scheme of things. Other than providing a very general comfort level with firearms. Something you'll be trained to acquire anyway... if you make it to an ODA. As with personal competence in Martial Arts, while interesting and useful, firearms expertise has little relevance for the task at hand... making it through SFAS/SFQC.

As a long serving former 18B, I assure you that nobody really cares about your kitchen table gunsmithing skills, AR builds, or tactical courses taken. Not unless you are a nationally ranked gunsmith, competitor, or trainer. I can teach a monkey to both wrench on and competently shoot an AR or a handgun.

Taking training from (or hanging out with) wingnuts who are on LEO or Federal Watch Lists is a definite red flag. The military frowns on association with extremist groups of any flavor and the determination of your future security clearance might hang in the balance.

Explosives? Yeah, that's a red flag in terms of associations (unless you have some bona fide current civilian job that involves blasting/demolitions). Again, it's not familiarity with such, it's the likelihood of your getting involved with others who might lead you astray. Try getting a waiver for previous charges involving "hobby" experiments with explosive devices or materials.

Language? French in particular? Absolutely. SF cross cultural abilities and language skills are critical. If you speak, read, and write in a foreign language (to any degree)... you are well ahead of the power curve. Regardless of current rankings for "demand" languages, French is a perennially valuable one in the SF arena. Used in all kinds of interesting places where we work. Africa. SE Asia. Parts of S. America & Caribbean. Europe. Competent French speakers in SF are typically scarce. Which can lead to some interesting assignments for those who are handy with that language.

Summary:

1. Take whatever firearm courses appeal to you; preferably from well-documented pros. Stay away from anything or anyone that remotely smacks of illegality, military posing, or extremist politics.

2. Stay away from hands-on explosives dabbling. Too many bread crumbs that attract attention from folks like DHS, ATF, etc. Read about it all you want.

3. Learn French. Or any other 2nd language you demonstrate a natural proclivity for.

#3 is actually the most important and useful "outside" skill you could bring to the table.

Last piece of advice: We've all been in relationships, most SF guys are married, and many manage to join the Regiment with a spouse in tow. But it makes it a lot tougher... for both you and her. Figure out what "serious girlfriend" really means. 'Cause if ever there's a time in your life for being solo, it's while attempting the SF Pipeline. If you love her and mean to marry her, then decide that, act on it, and try the 18X route anyway. A strong & supportive fiancee or wife can hold things down while you make the attempt.

But there is no room (zero) for SFAS/SFQC candidates with less than rock solid relationships. If your personal life isn't in order, it's no place for you.

It's not a game, you are expected to have your shit together and your mind focused. There ain't no time for long distance girlfriend drama. Nor will any previous civilian firearms/demo "experience" count for anything while in the pipeline. Language skills might (in terms of preferential future Group assignment).

Last edited by Astronomy; 06-01-2017 at 18:34.
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Old 06-01-2017, 15:42   #7
7624U
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
2. Stay away from hands-on explosives dabbling. Too many bread crumbs that attract attention from folks like DHS, ATF, etc. Read about it all you want.
This is good advise. have you ever been arrested or detained because of your curiosity?

If so it could directly effect your security clearance screening for many jobs not just SF.
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