Questions on FID in relation to SF...hear me out.

newbie · 03-29-2010, 14:12

So, as I try to recover from some nagging injuries, I find myself reading more and more about basically everything pertaining to SF. And although certain discussions have been beaten to death about standards, Future of SF etc...I wanted to ask a rather different question to any QPs out there willing to answer.

SF has the highest optempo around, and seem to be deployed almost everywhere all the time. So much so that the q course produces 700-800 graduates a year (about right?). Just to keep up with attrition and demand in the groups, and there are some seasoned QPs on this board saying standards are dropping. Point is, there are a lot of SF soldiers, doing a lot of things, in a lot of places.

Do you think that the FID missions that are commonly given to the Groups are worthy of your skills and talent...or could be done by a more conventional unit? My point is, (just for the sake of knowledge) should SF be more focussed on upping its standards, lowering it's numbers and concentrating on UW rather than FID? Kind of like MARSOC creating 2 different units MSOG and MSOAG I am WAAYY out of my lane here, and this thread will probably get torn apart, but just curious what the SF attitude is to average FID missions?

I ask because I, by chance, spent some time on a Jungle training course in South America with a National Guard ODA doing some FID work in country xxxx (PM me for details), because I have an interest in SF I grilled those guys for info, they were awesome, incredibly professional, and the 18D's were seriously talented, (helped them stitch some guys up after an accident with a machete). They were motivating as all hell to be around for an aspiring 18x'er, but I couldnt help but think that some of the stuff they were doing in that country was not beneath them... but they were obviously frustrated, you could tell by the way they joked about it. They spent alot of time doing tourist stuff and Apparently, country xxxxx's armed forces were terrible to train and work with, and just getting basic marksmanship skills was a serious problem. Though the Medcaps they preformed in some remote villages were very cool, and did alot to create allies with the local population im sure. HOwever, Cant such a FID mission be handled by a more conventional army training unit? Im sure that the ODA there was doing alot more than just training the locals in marksmanship, but at the same time, should there be a less specialized, dedicated FID unit working under SF, couldnt this shorten deployments, increase training/ family time and thus allow for greater retention and an increase in quality and standards....basically, why isnt there an UW/FID command spanning the armed forces? Just saying, it makes a hell of alot of sense, even to my inexperienced, know nothing self. ...Im ready to get beaten down now. I apologize if I am seriously out of bounds, but am simply interested in the conversation this might create. It seems logical to me that only high priority FID missions should go to SF. Looking forward to my destruction.

Oh man...kinda wish I hadnt asked this.

**The Reaper** · 03-29-2010, 14:52

What mission(s) do you think SF guys should be doing?

This team told you that they thought FID was "a BS assignment"?

TR

newbie · 03-29-2010, 15:04

TR. i just re-read and edited that. They NEVER said that at any point, and I would never think it was BS. I apologize for not having the SA to correct that before initially posting it. And I would never pretend to even know what the SF should be doing. Just after reading many threads on this forum...it seems that there are a lot of issues with optempo, and filling slots, declining standards etc...So i was wondering if FID was given levels of importance, so that SF is only used in the most important cases...just brainstorming. In all honesty... probably should have just kept my big mouth shut. Curiosity killed the cat etc...

Green Light · 03-29-2010, 15:59

I was in 7th Group for 9 years in the 1980s to early 90s. Our stock in trade was FID. AAMOF, no one did it better than we did.

Don't think of it as a mission, but as a manifestation of UW along the continuum of warfare (difficult to illustrate here):

On the low end of the continuum, you have peacetime competition. We send ODAs to foreign countries to show the flag, make nation-to-nation contact, improve their training, and to build relationships of trust. This is FID and it continues through the continuum through low intensity all the way through mid-intensity conflict.

At the other end is high intensity conflict. For SF, this gets into guerrilla warfare. What's the difference between FID and GW? Usually, in FID we are invited in by the host government, in GW we go in and subvert the government.

This is a huge over-simplification but it makes the point. The skills for FID carry over for GW - the difference is you're univited. I enjoyed the challenge of the mission. It was never "safe" and there were always bad-guys. We operated in Bolivia, Peru, Honduras, El Salavdor, and others. We lost guys and had WIAs in these low intensity conflict missions as well and the mid-intensity. We never thought that we were wasting our time. We captured drug kingpins and interdicted weapons. We trained up the Honduran army while the Nicaraguans were massing on the border just kilometers away. We ran into "G's" and kept El Sal Nicaragua from spilling into other Central American countries.

I think we did pretty well. We took what the previous SF generations gave us, learned hard-won lessons and passed them onto the next generation. These were used in Afghanistan and Iraq. Those guys there will learn more and pass them on to the next.

BS mission? Nah.

x SF med · 03-29-2010, 16:04

...to train, advise, organize and assist indigenous forces in their fights against oppressive governments...

Is there something unclear there?

newbie · 03-29-2010, 16:36

You all are of course...absolutely correct. And I know you dont need me to say that. i have an unbelievable amount of respect for the work that you and all our troops do/ have done on behalf of our nation. I wasnt intending to imply that the work was "BS" in any way...it came out wrong. I was being a little too relaxed with my wording. however, I was just wondering if since I constantly hear about the need for more SF soldiers, and the fact that 18x guys are only good to go 1/3 rd of the time (referring to statements made by QPs on a previous thread here). doesnt it make sense to lessen the burden on SF by only using them where for instance, advanced skills training is needed. Just wondering, if that is what already occurs...Ill fade into the shadows and not post again for some time.

head · 03-29-2010, 16:53

1. They ask for us by name. They know what "Green Berets" can do and our history - it is seen as an honor to them. ..And to us as well - as we usually will be working with the best soldiers that country has to offer. If you tell them a squad from the USCJFFIDD, or whatever is going to train them... doesn't carry the same weight.

2. There are no BS FID assignments - at least not in the very important opinion of the host nation. These missions come down from the Starfleet level and we may not have a full understanding of the diplomatic ramifications, but there are reasons why we are in some countries and not others.

3. When you are brought in to conduct a FID mission, you are ambassadors representing the Regiment, the Army, and the government of the United States. You will be meeting with the leaders of that country's military and government. Who would you rather have - "Quiet Professionals" or Pvt Joe Snuffy?