Primary Weapon System Piston Retrofit Kit

[Archangel]

Has anyone had any experience with this system? I don't want to get into a Piston -vs DI debate as it has been hashed out here and every other weapon forum in America.

Anyway, I have spoken to Todd (the owner) on several occassions and he seemed to genuinely care about taking care of his customers. The only PWS product that I have is the FSC556 and I'm pretty happy with it.

At $400 + a 10% MIL discount, it doesn't seem like a bad deal if one REALLY wants to get a piston upper. I'm leaning towards one since I use suppressors on my weapons and wouldn't mind less blowback in my face.

Thoughts?

http://www.primaryweapons.com/store/...7&idproduct=24

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...read.php?t=112

[jatx]

Dude, why don't you just send it to LWRC for a retrofit? Their system is more proven and they also offer the mil discount.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by jatx

Dude, why don't you just send it to LWRC for a retrofit? Their system is more proven and they also offer the mil discount.

For less than $400?

TR

[jbour13]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

For less than $400?

TR

Not going to happen for $400......My brother and I rebuilt my own on LWRC company machines and it still ran me $300. Nuff said

PWS is a vendor for LWRC for flash hiders and compensators. Not piston systems as some have been mistaken. That being said, LWRC will not field questions about PWS piston system and vice versa.....they are all good friends and would like to remain that way.

Not saying to buy LWRC or PWS. Op rod is a bit slender for my liking, I just like more robust systems.

PWS does make excellent muzzle brakes......loud, but great.

[rubberneck]

There is a guy on another forum that has one of the prototypes and has several thousand rounds through it and loves it. It is so new that I doubt that you will find that many with any serious round count racked up on it. I love the concept behind the systems but since I don't have a can or an SBR I can't justify laying out $400 for one an a rifle that runs just fine without it.

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by jatx

Dude, why don't you just send it to LWRC for a retrofit? Their system is more proven and they also offer the mil discount.

I called those guys back in October and asked if that was even possible and was told that it is, but that they weren't going to do them for non government contracts.

[jbour13]

Originally Posted by rubberneck

I called those guys back in October and asked if that was even possible and was told that it is, but that they weren't going to do them for non government contracts.

Odd, not the case from my last conversation with a company rep whom I know to be reliable (28 years worth of reliability). PM me the individuals name and I'll run it to ground for you. Sounds like someone fed you a line of BS, I have my suspicions of who, just like to confirm. I'll also get you a no crap price and timeframe if you are still interested.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by jbour13

Odd, not the case from my last conversation with a company rep whom I know to be reliable (28 years worth of reliability). PM me the individuals name and I'll run it to ground for you. Sounds like someone fed you a line of BS, I have my suspicions of who, just like to confirm. I'll also get you a no crap price and timeframe if you are still interested.

jbour13 - Glad you're chiming in on this one. I had the pleasure of meeting your "source" at the Expo here and fully intend to follow through with a conversion. It'll have to wait until a couple higher priority expendatures are out of the way, but I'm looking forward to it. Even went to the trouble of getting another upper expressly for the purpose. Nice product and seemed like a decent crew all the way around. Wish I'd gotten there with more time to BS; it was closing and they had already started packing up the toys. My regards to all.

[militarymoron]

i've got one (PWS piston conversion - new build actually), but need to put some rounds through it. with the new baby, i haven't had much time to shoot. i opted for a midlength setup -

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by jbour13

Odd, not the case from my last conversation with a company rep whom I know to be reliable (28 years worth of reliability). PM me the individuals name and I'll run it to ground for you. Sounds like someone fed you a line of BS, I have my suspicions of who, just like to confirm. I'll also get you a no crap price and timeframe if you are still interested.

To be fair I thought about it and it was June and not October and I spoke with the sales manager and one of the tech guys, they had me on speaker phone. I cannot for the life of me remember their names.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by jatx

Dude, why don't you just send it to LWRC for a retrofit? Their system is more proven and they also offer the mil discount.

Not all of us are young single bucking studs like you anymore. Some of us have crumbsnatchers to feed.

Last I checked, LWRC's price for a conversion was still over $1,000 with my MIL discount and (unless I am misinformed) the LWRC system did not give me an option for gas adjustment when using a suppressor.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Not all of us are young single bucking studs like you anymore. Some of us have crumbsnatchers to feed.

Why are they snatching crumbs when they should be picking up brass? Who's in charge around there, anyway?

ETA: The Micro T-1 in a GG&G mount will ride on my 10.5" M6A2 when it comes in. You can borrow it anytime.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by jatx

Why are they snatching crumbs when they should be picking up brass? Who's in charge around there, anyway?

ETA: The Micro T-1 in a GG&G mount will ride on my 10.5" M6A2 when it comes in. You can borrow it anytime.

Yeah, the 3 year old likes the warmth of a full diaper and you want me to try to get him to pick up brass?

WHAT?!!! You're finally coming over to the lowly Aimpoint camp? This I've got to see. Whatever happend to the wrong-eye dominant thing? Personally, I like to leave my Aimpoint ON between deployments. I like to see you try that between drills with your 553.

Wish I could make it to the Paul Howe instructor course with you, but I'm trying to work a deal to fly Paul down to train our boys at our facility (when it gets completed). Hell, if it works out the way I expect it to, I'd like to invite a few PS members down.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Archangel

WHAT?!!! You're finally coming over to the lowly Aimpoint camp? This I've got to see. Whatever happend to the wrong-eye dominant thing? Personally, I like to leave my Aimpoint ON between deployments. I like to see you try that between drills with your 553.

I have a theory that, if I run it pretty far out, I won't have an issue. I'm willing to try it with a T-1 due to the weight and the fact that it is less like looking through a tube. We'll see how it works, but I'm not selling my Eotech yet!

Originally Posted by Archangel

Wish I could make it to the Paul Howe instructor course with you, but I'm trying to work a deal to fly Paul down to train our boys at our facility (when it gets completed). Hell, if it works out the way I expect it to, I'd like to invite a few PS members down.

I'm going in October instead of May due to a client conflict, so perhaps you can make it. I'm also going to Jeff Gonzales' Carbine Operator Course at Quantico in October, which should be great training, too. Lemme know if you're interested and I'll send you the details.

Don't tell the Mrs. that you're with me, though, or she'll be calling to check on you the whole time!

[jbour13]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Not all of us are young single bucking studs like you anymore. Some of us have crumbsnatchers to feed.

Last I checked, LWRC's price for a conversion was still over $1,000 with my MIL discount and (unless I am misinformed) the LWRC system did not give me an option for gas adjustment when using a suppressor.

Archangel,

You are correct on the gas adjustment. Not to say that it's perfect, but the piston system is self regulating. When using a suppressor, the gas system on any gun, direct impengement (DI) or gas piston (GP), will overcharge gas into the operating parts. This increased blowback goes unregulated in a DI gun causing severe blowback into your operating parts (bolt, carrier, all the way out the ejection port and charging handle) and into your face. The beauty of the GP designs (LWRC, HK, POF and even PWS) is that they all vent at the piston.

The LWRC design is a self regulating/ self cleaning piston cup. This is from Darren at LWRC:

"Pressure builds over microseconds. The spring prevents the system from opening until just enough pressure is built to overcome the mass and all of the action springs. Once it pushes off, 6/10ths of an inch, it vents all excess in a staged vent and dump.

Cyclic rate depends on gas port dimension and the can (suppressor) volume."

Broken down Barney Style: You cannot overcharge the GP in a LWRC rifle......period, either suppressed or un-suppressed. A DI gun will spit carbon all over you and will increase your mean rounds to failure rate.

Adjustable gas systems are a necessity for DI guns to increase reliability and function of the massive differences in ammunition available for commercial shooters. Military uses ammunition that is fairly consistent burning for each application it is designed for. Anyone could tell you that de-linking ammo to use in a magazine or bolt fed platform will change the rates of fire, and accuracy. This gets worse as you step up calibers since the chambering of every weapons platform is different and the tolerances are spread over ammo, chamber and bore characteristics.

There are many on this board better qualified to cover this topic more accurately than I, so I digress. There is no need for an adjustable gas block on GP guns only DI.

Hope you are all still interested, we are still doing conversions, and we are still helping out. The company is setting up for SHOT, and preparing to move into a facility that will help them spit out more rifles per month than they can now. We've reached critical mass on orders vs. production. Demand is great for the system, unfortunately 4 guys on the production line are prematurely balding and getting ulcers trying to get these in the hands of the end users.

In the near future the company will only be providing direct to vendor (distributors, and select companies) sales and is slowly weening off individual sales. The staff that is in place isn't able to conduct follow-ups and answer questions of all of the individuals out there, so we are actually adding the middle men.

FWIW