Antibacterial Breakthrough?

[Cincinnatus]

WOW! If I undestand the implications of this correctly, it could be a HUGE breakthrough;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061018/...dmBHNlYwM3NTM-

[AngelsSix]

I have a question concerning this. Do we only build immunity to viruses or to bacteria as well?? I was wondering that by making more and more anti-bacterial products, etc., if we will end up developing a super bacteria that will beat everything we have thus far. I also wonder if we will lower our immunity to things to the point where our systems will start triggering allergies to normal everyday things.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by AngelsSix

I have a question concerning this. Do we only build immunity to viruses or to bacteria as well?? I was wondering that by making more and more anti-bacterial products, etc., if we will end up developing a super bacteria that will beat everything we have thus far. I also wonder if we will lower our immunity to things to the point where our systems will start triggering allergies to normal everyday things.

We build immunity to both viruses and bacteria. But some viruses mutate so quickly that you need a new vaccine every year. If you caught the flu last year, your immune system won't recognize this year's new and improved version. Other viruses, like chicken pox, don't change -- if you caught it as a child you get lifetime immunity. And some bacteria are really "smart" and build slimy cocoons to "hide" from our immune system.

And yes, more and more antibacterials mean super bugs. That antibacterial pump soap you use gets washed down the drain and into the water supply. Bacteria develop resistance to it. These bugs don't get any nastier than those our g-grandparents faced, we just have no way to fight them. People used to die from staph infections all the time -- those days are back again.

The quiz is on Thursday.

[mugwump]

To continue the water/resistance theme: All that Tamiflu they are making to fight bird flu (tons and tons of it). When you take it, you pee 80% of it out unchanged. There's going to be massive amounts in the water (although extremely dilute) if this flu thing happens and all that tamiflu gets eaten. There's a paper in Nature that speculates the wild virus in birds will quickly develop resistance to it (the resistance is developing already, a consequence of the Tamiflu "blanket" they are using in Indonesia to try to stop it).

Weirdly enough, birth-control hormones, hypertension meds, etc. get peed out unchanged and are building up in the water supply as well. Pretty much every chemical made ends up in the water. And they wonder why eight year-old girls are going through puberty.

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by mugwump

We build immunity to both viruses and bacteria. But some viruses mutate so quickly that you need a new vaccine every year. If you caught the flu last year, your immune system won't recognize this year's new and improved version. Other viruses, like chicken pox, don't change -- if you caught it as a child you get lifetime immunity. And some bacteria are really "smart" and build slimy cocoons to "hide" from our immune system.

And yes, more and more antibacterials mean super bugs. That antibacterial pump soap you use gets washed down the drain and into the water supply. Bacteria develop resistance to it. These bugs don't get any nastier than those our g-grandparents faced, we just have no way to fight them. People used to die from staph infections all the time -- those days are back again.

The quiz is on Thursday.

Mug-
You forgot to mention all of the 'half regimen' antibiotic therapies.... People stopping a therapeutic antibiotic regimen as soon as they feel better and saving the remainder of the Rx for 'next time'. the stupidest thing one could ever do - there is stuff out there that has become resistant to the really big gun C-sporins and "maxi-cillins" for just this reason. Let kids eat dirt, wipe their noses and cough - don't ask for an antibiotic every time you go to the Doc, even if it's viral (90% the docs fault, he/she should never cave).
Everything being sterile and over antibioticized is going to kill the industrialized countries - no immune system leaves you wide open to bioterror and just plain endemic infections.

***ok, rant over - time to go thee doctor and get some ampicillin for my allergies..... NOT ***

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by x_sf_med

Mug-
You forgot to mention all of the 'half regimen' antibiotic therapies.... People stopping a therapeutic antibiotic regimen as soon as they feel better and saving the remainder of the Rx for 'next time'. the stupidest thing one could ever do - there is stuff out there that has become resistant to the really big gun C-sporins and "maxi-cillins" for just this reason. Let kids eat dirt, wipe their noses and cough - don't ask for an antibiotic every time you go to the Doc, even if it's viral (90% the docs fault, he/she should never cave).
Everything being sterile and over antibioticized is going to kill the industrialized countries - no immune system leaves you wide open to bioterror and just plain endemic infections.

***ok, rant over - time to go thee doctor and get some ampicillin for my allergies..... NOT ***

You are absolutely right. Get a dog when your kids are little and let it lick their ice cream cones! Best thing for 'em.

It's hard to stare down a mommy when her kid is crying from an ear infection, even when the angels are on your side. It's a business, and those med-school loans don't get paid by themselves.

Also, antibiotics in fish, poultry and livestock production are a huge problem. The gut superbugs (C. difficile, salmonella, etc.) are a direct consequence of penicillin, cephalosporin, and quinolone use in agriculture. That was the straw that broke my back when I worked in the pharma industry -- their decision to market "my" quinolone to the poultry industry. Totally irresponsible. (A better job offer didn't hurt my decision, either -- I'm not that noble. ) They "share" their resistance with other bugs too.

[jasonglh]

Gee thanks. First I was only worried about the massive amount of chicken poop being washed into my local rivers by the enormous Tyson chicken houses. Now I have to worry about the massive amounts of antibiotics and other drugs being washed away in the chicken piss.

We dont need a rogue comet to wipe out civilization we are doing a fine job on our own.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by Cincinnatus

WOW! If I undestand the implications of this correctly, it could be a HUGE breakthrough;

http://news.yahoo.co<br /> m/s/ap/2...dmBHNlYwM3NTM-

Yes, these are pretty cool, although they are not new. With methicillin-resistant Staph aureus (MRSA aka "flesh eating bacteria) and "super" TB such emerging problems these little peptides are being fast-tracked for development.

The naturally occurring ones are really ancient molecules. Geneticists speculate that they were the original weapons that single-celled organisms used against each other billions of years ago, and all living things - including humans - still retain them in their genes to this day. Some of these molecules are used as immune messengers in our bodies -- part of the cytokine system. (Weirdly enough, massive amounts of these normally-good molecules might be part of the "cytokine storm" that the H5N1 flu seems to bring about.)

That's what's slowing down their development. Dicking around with the cytokine system can have catastrophic consequences, and rats/dogs/monkeys use different molecules than us so animal testing doesn't give the usual clues regarding safety. You don't want to be the first human they pump this stuff into. Maybe you heard about the six guys in the UK who puffed up like frogs and had multiple organ failure after being injected with millionths of a gram of a cytokine regulator. One has leukemia now.

Another cool new/old treatment is bacteriophage therapy. Bacteriophages are viruses that attack and kill only bacteria. They look like little mortar rounds with whiskers coming off the tail. The Soviets were decades ahead of the rest of the world in the 40's but antibiotics kinda ended the party for them. They had developed different strains of these viruses that they'd inject into people to fight specific infections.

You may have heard that they are spraying lunch meat with viruses now. Those are bacteriophages that kill common bacterial contaminants on meat.