Vertical Grips

**Roguish Lawyer** · 07-09-2006, 17:52

I was discussing this with TS over the weekend and thought I'd start a thread.

Is using a forward vertical grip on a rifle ergonomically superior to supporting the barrel with an upward palm? TS pointed out that when you turn your wrist sideways to grip a vertical grip, you are changing the muscles you are using to support the weight of the front of the weapon -- more forearm and less bicep, I think. Biceps generally are stronger than forearms, so are you creating more work for yourself (and possibly sacrificing some accuracy and wasting energy) by using a vertical grip?

What do you think?

NousDefionsDoc · 07-09-2006, 18:01

I was trained without them and now I use them. What TS says is right, but I don't grip it hard enough to make a difference between the forearm and bicep (the rifle weighs about 8 pounds - a gurl could hold it). With training you get used to it.

Since I have started using them, I have grown to love them.

They do get in the way of prone and supported at times.

I run mine as far foward as I can. I have arms like an ape.

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

I would advise you to get one and give both ways an honest try and see which you like better.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 07-09-2006, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I would advise you to get one and give both ways an honest try and see which you like better.

Thanks. I have one now -- pictures here:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...&postcount=310

NousDefionsDoc · 07-09-2006, 18:19

Learn to wear gloves yet?

You have to remember what the tool was designed for, and use it appropriately. They also add a little weight, and you can overload yourself.

I like them for the work I do. others may not.

And the end of the day, it's your bullet launcher.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 07-09-2006, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Learn to wear gloves yet?

Not yet. But I am the acorn that becomes the oak!

NousDefionsDoc · 07-09-2006, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Not yet. But I am the acorn that becomes the oak!

You will need to with a grip that aggressive. I am using SWMS now. A little expensive, but very, very nice gloves.

Max_Tab · 07-10-2006, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I run mine as far foward as I can. I have arms like an ape.

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

Two groups of thought on that, I was tought, that you want the vertical foregrips as far back as possible, so you get a more supported platform to shoot from. But I have heard that some other units are teaching to have them all the way foreward, so you can acquire targets faster.

I don't have long hands, so keeping it close works for me. Now if I had a 10 inch barrel I might push it out a little.

**Razor** · 07-10-2006, 10:20

While the forearm is supporting some of the weight of the weapon's barrel/foregrip/attachments, by pulling slightly rearward you're also using your lats and rear delts, which helps prevent fatigue.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-10-2006, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_Tab

Two groups of thought on that, I was tought, that you want the vertical foregrips as far back as possible, so you get a more supported platform to shoot from. But I have heard that some other units are teaching to have them all the way foreward, so you can acquire targets faster.

I don't have long hands, so keeping it close works for me. Now if I had a 10 inch barrel I might push it out a little.

I'd tend to agree with this train of thought.

I've found it difficult to "index" from tgt to tgt while using a V-grip. It's much smoother/faster when just the palm of the support hand is under the upper receiver.

TS

B 2/75 · 07-10-2006, 21:04

I'm no big-time door kicker, but I did give the fore grip a serious trial in OIF 1. Started out with a full size M4A1 with an ACOG and vgrip and in the end carried an 11" M4A1 with just a trijicon reflex on it. Nothing else. Perhaps I just couldn't get past the "strangeness" of the foregrip, despite having putzed for a few years with an M1A on an M14E2 stock having the foregrip. Having the clean forestock just makes for better hands-on control, it seems.

Gene Econ · 07-11-2006, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by B 2/75

I'm no big-time door kicker, but I did give the fore grip a serious trial in OIF 1. Started out with a full size M4A1 with an ACOG and vgrip and in the end carried an 11" M4A1 with just a trijicon reflex on it. Nothing else. Perhaps I just couldn't get past the "strangeness" of the foregrip, despite having putzed for a few years with an M1A on an M14E2 stock having the foregrip. Having the clean forestock just makes for better hands-on control, it seems.

B 2/75:

Joe tends to pull the barrel down when using a 'gangsta-grip'. Most of the guys we dealt with who started out any course with one soon took it off. Damn things would come loose and cause a bunch of problems getting hung up on gear and etc. Looks cool though.

Paid a visit to 2/75 last week to talk with the BC for a minute.

Gene

Smokin Joe · 07-11-2006, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

This is the category I operate the most in. Very seldom can we shoot someone so for me the VFG turns the barrel into a hell of an impact weapon. I'm currently trying one out. I have not yet decided if I like it or not.

82ndtrooper · 08-29-2006, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I was trained without them and now I use them. What TS says is right, but I don't grip it hard enough to make a difference between the forearm and bicep (the rifle weighs about 8 pounds - a gurl could hold it). With training you get used to it.

Since I have started using them, I have grown to love them.

They do get in the way of prone and supported at times.

I run mine as far foward as I can. I have arms like an ape.

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

I would advise you to get one and give both ways an honest try and see which you like better.

What about a veritcal grip that serves as a quick release BI-POD ? I do not own one, dont need it, but reports thus far from the ground pounders that are using them are "Love Affair" for them. This would solve some of the problems discussed in this thread regarding going to the "Prone" position, and using your mag as a semi-pseudo mono pod.

it's here > www.grippod.com

Cincinnatus · 08-29-2006, 19:04

jatx,

I've got an older SureFire Millenium light, IIRC (M-4 type handguard w/ 3 [123] battery light mounted at about two o'clock, pressure pad on the handguard, dial switch for constant/ intermittent/ off behind the light), it's very bright, totally reliable, on the heavy side and was quite pricey. I was thinking about the things I didn't like; the weight, the light at 2 o'clock vs. 6 o'clock, and the price, and wondering about a cheap way of accomplishing the same functionality.

I've also been reading posts by different folks about the best way to grip the forend/ handguard on various boards... So it boils down to idle ruminations and wondering if anyone had tried using the YMT rail, scope rings and a light at six o'clock and how that had worked.

**Peregrino** · 08-30-2006, 08:11

Cincinnatus - Try rotating your M500 to the bottom handguard position. Then replace the SureFire handguard half with a standard (skinny, single heat shield) carbine handguard for the top position. It'll put the light at 8 o'clock, eliminate the shadow below your line of sight, clear your FOV for traversing right, and still leave the controls accessible to your left thumb. The only issue is sling position. Work-arounds aren't that difficult. FWIW - Peregrino