Weapon cleaning/lubrication

[Endorphin Rush]

Gentlemen...

A little history first...I, and my teammates, currently train on a bi-weekly basis that keeps us shooting approximately 8 hours per month, or firing approximately 800 rounds per month through our issued weapons. Long guns are either the Colt subgun or Colt M4. Hand guns are either the department issue Glock 22 or personally owned 1911.

Since the department does not supply cleaning or lubricating materials, most of us use whatever products we feel is best individually. I currently use Militec/Tetra/or Ultima-Lube products.

What we are considering doing is making a department-wide purchase of cleaning/lubricating products and are seeking opinions as to what is best.

I have recently considered the Sentry Solutions products and have been reading about/researching same. Sounds like a pretty appealing group of products, especially in the form of their Armorer's Kit.

Does anyone on the board have any personal or professional experience with the Sentry Solutions products, especially those containing Molybdenum Disulfide, that can provide their experiences as a comparison with any other products???


Thanks!!!

ER

[TXscout]

I have heard good things about the Sentry solutions products, but traditionally have used Break Free and Tetra products with good results on all of my weapons. FWIW, You might want to look into some of the larger "dunking tank" setups with baskets, but can't remember which companies offer them. These would be helpful for volume cleaning.

[Endorphin Rush]

For anyone that is interested you can find their site at : www.sentrysolutions.com.

I just received their Armorer's Kit today in the mail. I/we will give it a run and I will report our results/opinions, for what they are worth.

TXscout;

Appreciate the reply. We've looked into the ultrasonic "dunk tank" type cleaning systems (made by L&R MFG. and the like), but most are cost prohibitive. It's a hard sell to a small department. We have used them while training with larger departments (East Brunswick, NJ PD has a nice set up) and they are definitely the shit.

[Endorphin Rush]

OK...for anyone that may be interested.

I did a two week trial with this stuff (admittedly, not a long trial) and got a feel for it.

First off, it is time consuming to prep the weapon and then to apply the products. Cure time for the Smooth-Cote is about two hours. Then, if desired, one must apply the BP2000 powder in all areas in which wear occurs. A Hi-Slip grease is also supplied and is recommended in all "high-wear" areas, in addition to the above products.

Now, the BP2000 is not a needed addition, but is supposed to make a smoother contact surface when applied with the Smooth-Cote.

The process is not only supposed to make a more friction-free surface, but is supposed to provide an easier clean up over other oil or grease lubricants. Well...it didn't feel like there was any less friction to cycle the slide or work any of the other mechanisms. Now, I don't own any devices that measure co-efficient of friction, the above observation was determined by my own low-tech hands. And the clean up...well, it didn't take any less time.

Of course, Molybdenum Disulfide is supposed to be the one chemical that will almost guarantee the absence of galling between stainless steel parts. And that was my main reason for trying this stuff.

But, I've never experienced a malfunction with the other products that I've used in the past, by evidence of the lack of a single malfunction over thousands of rounds fired.

So, in conclusion, while I can't say anything in the negative, I don't know that there is any overriding reason to switch from what we are using already (Tetra Lube/Grease, Militec Oil/Grease, Ultima Lube).

Endorphin Rush

[bberkley]

I use FP-10 on my STI's, USPc, and AR. My Glock gets some Slide-Glide.

[nmap]

I wonder if it might be possible to go a bit deeper into the subject of cleaning and lubricating a firearm?

As nearly as I can tell, reasonable practice is to field strip the weapon after each use, clean it, then apply a light coating of oil or other lubricant. That seems simple enough.

However, I noticed an item here that suggested:

I now detail clean my pistols aprox every 1k rounds, and do a basic cleaning after each usage, and a relube every 2 weeks even if not used.

LINK - See post #15

I have also noticed some other references that seem to hint at such things as disassembly of magazines, deep cleaning every 500 rounds, and so forth. There seems to be some concern that oils can penetrate, and hence ruin, ammunition in the magazine.

My usage is, at best, modest. Perhaps best placed in the comedy section, actually. But I go to the range once per month and fire 100 rounds of factory loaded ammunition. I carry the firearm in a utility bag, and have good intentions of moving into an IWB holster (probably Crossbreed) at some point.

The firearms are: Glock 17, HK USP tactical (9mm), and Kel Tec P3AT in .380.

After reading other threads, I have Militec - 1 lubricant and also grease on order.

So...if I may...the questions:

1) How often should I field strip and clean the weapons?

2) How often should I deep-clean them? This appears challenging in the case of the H&K especially; however, perhaps I'm making it harder than it is. Is there some literature that gives step-by-step instruction in such matters?

3) Should I break down the magazines, clean, and lube them?

As always, any guidance is appreciated. I've probably failed to ask several important things, so please tell me anything you believe a neophyte ought to be aware of.

[steelcobra]

Originally Posted by nmap

I wonder if it might be possible to go a bit deeper into the subject of cleaning and lubricating a firearm?

As nearly as I can tell, reasonable practice is to field strip the weapon after each use, clean it, then apply a light coating of oil or other lubricant. That seems simple enough.

However, I noticed an item here that suggested:

I now detail clean my pistols aprox every 1k rounds, and do a basic cleaning after each usage, and a relube every 2 weeks even if not used.

LINK - See post #15

I have also noticed some other references that seem to hint at such things as disassembly of magazines, deep cleaning every 500 rounds, and so forth. There seems to be some concern that oils can penetrate, and hence ruin, ammunition in the magazine.

My usage is, at best, modest. Perhaps best placed in the comedy section, actually. But I go to the range once per month and fire 100 rounds of factory loaded ammunition. I carry the firearm in a utility bag, and have good intentions of moving into an IWB holster (probably Crossbreed) at some point.

The firearms are: Glock 17, HK USP tactical (9mm), and Kel Tec P3AT in .380.

After reading other threads, I have Militec - 1 lubricant and also grease on order.

So...if I may...the questions:

1) How often should I field strip and clean the weapons?

2) How often should I deep-clean them? This appears challenging in the case of the H&K especially; however, perhaps I'm making it harder than it is. Is there some literature that gives step-by-step instruction in such matters?

3) Should I break down the magazines, clean, and lube them?

As always, any guidance is appreciated. I've probably failed to ask several important things, so please tell me anything you believe a neophyte ought to be aware of.

I've had REALLY good results soaking in Mpro7 solvent, then lubing with Hoppes #9. Spray the solvent on, wait 5 minutes, and wipe clean. It will be CLEAN. "Deep-clean" isn't real, it's either dirty, wiped down, or clean. Anything beyond that is basically taking it to your smith to refurbish.

Definitely disassemble your mags once in a while, but lube will just attract dirt in something that doesn't need it.

And no, oil/lube can't mess up your rounds. Especially if you use milsurp (there's a sealant around the bullet inside the casing). The only way is if you somehow get it inside the primer, or the greased rounds touch dirt.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by steelcobra

I've had REALLY good results soaking in Mpro7 solvent, then lubing with Hoppes #9. Spray the solvent on, wait 5 minutes, and wipe clean. It will be CLEAN. "Deep-clean" isn't real, it's either dirty, wiped down, or clean. Anything beyond that is basically taking it to your smith to refurbish.

Definitely disassemble your mags once in a while, but lube will just attract dirt in something that doesn't need it.

And no, oil/lube can't mess up your rounds. Especially if you use milsurp (there's a sealant around the bullet inside the casing). The only way is if you somehow get it inside the primer, or the greased rounds touch dirt.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm

When my pistols start looking grungy on the inside, I clean them as best I can and then drop them into my ultrasonic cleaner. It usually does a pretty good job of cleaning them up. Blow them dry afterwards and lube everything that needs it. I tend to run my stuff on the wet side, which seems to attract crud, and a day on the range with the wind blowing dirt and sand around, or a dropped gun needs some TLC beyond a bore brushing and a hit or miss with a greasy rag. I avoid removing all of the small parts and springs from any weapon more complicated than a 1911, and especially one like the HK. I do not need a pile test.

I think that you might want to try spraying some WD-40 on the outside of some civilian ammo and then let them sit for a while before seeing how they work. He is probably not shooting milsurp for carry ammo. Civilian ammo is not military ammo. There is no advantage in greasing centerfire ammo, and excessive lube can sometimes find its way into the case. Trust me on that one. I keep a can of WD-40 on my reloading bench and use it to kill live primers before decapping them.

Clean your mags if they get sand or dirt inside, or if you sense that they are not feeding well. Keep some spare mag springs on hand in case they get soft.

Best of luck.

TR

[steelcobra]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

When my pistols start looking grungy on the inside, I clean them as best I can and then drop them into my ultrasonic cleaner. It usually does a pretty good job of cleaning them up. Blow them dry afterwards and lube everything that needs it. I tend to run my stuff on the wet side, which seems to attract crud, and a day on the range with the wind blowing dirt and sand around, or a dropped gun needs some TLC beyond a bore brushing and a hit or miss with a greasy rag. I avoid removing all of the small parts and springs from any weapon more complicated than a 1911, and especially one like the HK. I do not need a pile test.

I think that you might want to try spraying some WD-40 on the outside of some civilian ammo and then let them sit for a while before seeing how they work. He is probably not shooting milsurp for carry ammo. Civilian ammo is not military ammo. There is no advantage in greasing centerfire ammo, and excessive lube can sometimes find its way into the case. Trust me on that one. I keep a can of WD-40 on my reloading bench and use it to kill live primers before decapping them.

Clean your mags if they get sand or dirt inside, or if you sense that they are not feeding well. Keep some spare mag springs on hand in case they get soft.

Best of luck.

TR

The Box-o-truth article was using handloads (and spraying INTO the primers did kill them), so as a primer example it should be pretty accurate. And I wasn't recommending he lube his rounds, just that it wouldn't cause major issues beyond collecting dirt short term.

Besides, how many people do you think have that kind of cleaning equipment at home. Hell, the best we have in the military is the solvent tank with a hose with a brush on it to clean stuff. And that's at the Group Support Company.

Besides, there was only one gun in history I can think of that NEEDED greased rounds, and it was a shitty WWII Japanese machine gun.

[ES 96]

The Italian Breda Model 1930 and the 1937 had to have oiled cartridges in order to avoid cases sticking in the chamber. Not a good thing to require when fighting in Libya and elsewhere in North Africa with all that talcum powder like sand. Then again the Italians were speed bumps for the British anyway so I don't think it much mattered...the Afrika Korps on the other hand...

Could you imagine if the M240 & 249 required oiled cartridges?

[SdAufKla]

Originally Posted by Alpine Matt

The Italian Breda Model 1930 and the 1937 had to have oiled cartridges in order to avoid cases sticking in the chamber. Not a good thing to require when fighting in Libya and elsewhere in North Africa with all that talcum powder like sand. Then again the Italians were speed bumps for the British anyway so I don't think it much mattered...the Afrika Korps on the other hand...

Could you imagine if the M240 & 249 required oiled cartridges?

The main competing design against the early M1 Garand prototype was the .276 cal Pedersen T1. It also used a lubricated round, and this was the main reason that the Ordnance Department selected John Garand's design for further development over Pedersen's. (The .276 cal was also a dead-end design, but Pedersen's failure was about the requirement for lubricated ammo.) So, even in the 1920's the Big Green Machine (hmmm... maybe the Big Khaki Machine?) saw lubricated ammo as a dumb ass'ed idea. (Even the regular Army gets something right every now and again.)

IRT the original topic, though, gun cleaning and lubrication is really not that complicated. There are no magic formulas for rounds fired vs. cleaning frequency or mystical potions that can be applied once and never touched again.

It's very simple; if you fire it, clean it. After you clean it, lube it. If it gets dirty too quickly because you have too much lube on it, use less lube or clean it more often. If you don't have time to clean it thoroughly, clean it as best as you can until you do have the time. Then when you do have the time, clean it thoroughly.

Clean means that there is nothing on the gun's parts that the manufacturer didn't put there or that isn't lube. How do you know when it’s dirty? Look at it. Does it have dirt on it? Have you fired it? If the answer is “yes” to either question, clean it.

Sometimes you have to clean your guns every 30 minutes, and sometimes you don't have to clean them for a year. It just depends on how dirty they get and how fast they get dirty.

Clean guns are more reliable than dirty guns. Reliable guns are better than less reliable guns, therefore, clean guns are better than dirty guns.

If you have to worry about wearing out a gun because you think you're cleaning it too much, then you're in the wrong line of work, or you need to get a new gun when you wear this one out.

There's entirely too much hype and too many snake oil salesmen trying to pawn-off the latest greatest gun-goop and gadgets. Adhere to the KISS principle and stay old-school, and you'll be just fine.

If it seems like it's all just too much work, well, nobody said it would be easy except the guy trying to part you from your hard-earned cash by selling you some patent-medicine potion that will eliminate forever the chore of cleaning your gun. If it still seems like too much work to clean your gun when your ass depends on it, then, again, you're in the wrong line of business.

[alelks]

Miltec is great stuff. After I retired I even sent my son some while he was in Iraq (it was scarce at the time).

I have been using a product called Gunzilla that works great. I've read of quite a few people that prefer it over Miltec.

Gunzilla like Miltec doesn't leave a greasy film but lubricates very well.

Might be worth a try.

AL

EDIT: I forgot to mention that it's a cleaner as well as a lubricant.

http://www.gunzilla.us/

[kawika]

As far as lubrication goes i've come to like using brian enos slide glide. http://www.brianenos.com/pages/slide-glide.html. I first only used it on my limited gun for USPSA, but after I got rid of it to go production I kept on using it on my regular pistols. It also works fine on AR's although not as much. It's nice because it is tacky. It stays in place and doesn't come off as fast. So you can get by without having to liberally coat your AR to make it function correctly. When it gets hot(like Afghanistan hot, 115+) it acts weird so I haven't used it deployed yet but I might.

[nmap]

Thanks for all the answers.

It looks as if I'll wind up getting an ultrasonic cleaner.

I would say "Oh, darn" but that wouldn't be credible.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by nmap

Thanks for all the answers.

It looks as if I'll wind up getting an ultrasonic cleaner.

I would say "Oh, darn" but that wouldn't be credible.

If you are married, you can offset a large part of the cost by giving it to your spouse at Christmas as a "Jewelry Cleaner", before discovering later that it also works on firearms.

Just a thought.

TR