Bad Tölz, Böblingen, {insert name}???

[Richard]

Lärmbelästigung - the more things change, the more they remain the same...

And so it goes...

Richard

In Germany, A Range Too Close For Comfort
S&S, 3 June 2012

The mayors are angry and so are their constituents.

After years of back-and-forth talk with the U.S. military over noise levels at the firing ranges in Böblingen, residents have a message for the Army: Stifle the sound or train someplace else.

“I’m running out of patience,” said Christine Kraayvanger, mayor of Böblingen, which hosts the U.S. Army’s Panzer Kaserne and the eight acres of shooting ranges where U.S. special operators prepare for America’s wars.

The range, about three football fields’ distance from a residential neighborhood, has irritated residents for years. Now, nearly three years after an Army-funded noise study found that the sound was indeed excessive, politicians and residents want to see more action.

“Everybody agrees it’s too noisy. It sounds like you are on a battlefield,” said Eberhard Knobloch, a retired Böblingen resident. “The answer we always get is, ‘Our soldiers have to practice.’ And we have to suffer.”

Residents want the Army to pay to renovate the entire Böblingen Land Training Area’s firing ranges with noise abating barriers, not just a portion as the Army has done so far.

The steady crackle of gunfire can be heard almost daily around the neighborhood of Rauher Kapf, home to about 1,500 people, a small kindergarten and a health clinic.

Kraayvanger said Böblingen established a special committee in response to demands from upset residents, but local officials say efforts to pressure the Army have failed to yield sufficient improvements.

The Army says it dealt with some noise concerns while making other improvements to the ranges. However, noise abatement wasn’t the prime motive.

(Cont'd) http://www.stripes.com/news/in-germa...WX0pU.facebook

[greenberetTFS]

“I do wonder why the Special Forces were ever sent here,” said Knoblauch. “It doesn’t make sense in a place like this.”.........

Big Teddy

[Destrier]

I doubt they complained to the German Army tankers during World War 2 that used the range.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Destrier

I doubt they complained to the German Army tankers during World War 2 that used the range.

Those two guys were tankers who trained there in WW2...on bicycles with broomsticks...but now that they're retired...

Richard

[MVP]

There is a lot of background information about the village "three football fields away" that generally does not get reported. Biggest is that the village did not exist until relatively recently. German developers purposely mislead buyers by taking them out there only during the agreed upon "quiet hours" when no shooting took place. Once the house were built and people moved in they then became aware the noise and of course it was the Ami's fault. The other big thing is that in the early-mid 2000's a noise study determined that the actual real increase in noise noise came not from the shooting but from the aircraft making their approach/departure from Stuttgart international. Guess PC has dictated other study results this time around.

Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude. The Germans have forgotten who pulled their asses out of the fire following WWII and provided for their security for over 50 years. I have a very hard time dealing with many from the younger arrogant/liberal/superior generations.

I think somewhere like Kroatia would be ideal...

[greenberetTFS]

For a very short time when I was in the 11th ABN they weren't nationalized yet,we were still considered as an occupied force but their attitude really changed once they became nationalized.........

Big Teddy

[-Jas-]

Originally Posted by MVP

Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude. The Germans have forgotten who pulled their asses out of the fire following WWII and provided for their security for over 50 years. I have a very hard time dealing with many from the younger arrogant/liberal/superior generations.

I think somewhere like Kroatia would be ideal...

Please don´t go

Seriously, that´s typical with germans and the military.

You built your house near a nuclear power plant and now complain about possible pollution ? you´re fault

You built your house near a train track and now complain about the noise? you should have known better

you built your house near a autobahn? same here

But God behold you chose(!) to live next to a military area THEY have to shut the f*** up. Not just with US Forces, the same happens to Bundeswehr Units all the time.
Hey can we do some night jumps out of the Sea Kings? No, sorry they are not allowed to start after 8pm, other than in a case of emergency - noise pollution

The shooting area is shutting down at 4pm. "Why, noone lives around here for miles??" - "protection of the wildlife"

You´re considering moving to Croatia? I think germans want the Bundeswehr to move with you - all of them. We kind of moved from "Die Bundeswehr darf kein Staat im Staate werden" to "Der Staat darf keine Bundeswehr im Staat haben"

[Richard]

Maybe they'd quit complaining if we played the Panzer Lied or Horst Wessel Lied when using the ranges...

And so it goes...

Richard

[-Jas-]

I know it sounds weird... but we need a new threat to national security to remind people that freedom doesn´t come for free (or by corrupting banking systems)

But this seems hard to come by, in a country where every(!) terrorist attack is prevented in a early state, plans for such an attack are revealed and demolished fast ... but somehow a few Nazis can kill and murder immigrants for over a decade with noone getting their hands on them o.O

Anyway, due to its reconstruction, the Bundeswehr is leaving some great great facilites. There is still enough space

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by MVP

Although I personally have connections to the area I think the Bn would do better to move to an area more conducive to training and with a supportive attitude.

I was thinking Hohenfels, Grafenwoehr or Wildflecken.

I shot M1911A1s at the range on Panzer thirty years ago but the population density back then wasn't that great. Was there a few years ago and it had changed dramatically. I can remember when Vaihingen was a village.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by mojaveman

I was thinking Hohenfels, Graffenwoehr or Wildflecken.

I shot M1911A1s at the range on Panzer thirty years ago but the population density back then wasn't that great. Was there a few years ago and it has changed dramatically. I can remember when Vaihingen was a village.

Hohenfels,I remember shooting my M1 in 1957-58 to re-qualify for expert over my sharpshooter badge...... It was below zero and they still took us out on the range........ I hated that place because I never went there except when it was always so f**n cold..

Big Teddy

[MVP]

"I was thinking Hohenfels, Graffenwoehr or Wildflecken."

I'm thinking out of Germany, although Barbaria is better than Baden-Wuerttemberg the restrictions on training are still way out of hand. Perhaps best to leave USAREUR/USEUCOM/AFRICOM in Stuttgart and get the Bn and perhaps NSWU2 into Poland/Kroatia/Slovenia...

MVP

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Hohenfels,. . . I hated that place because I never went there except when it was always so f**n cold..

Big Teddy

Ahh, I'm sorry to hear that Big Teddy. You shoulda gone in the summer. When it was too muddy or to dusty.

Anyone here ever spend Gunnery at Graf in Camp Cheb? In the winter. As a FOTB 2LT I learned exactly where I fit in the scheme . . . My cot was assigned to the corner of the GP Medium. I could see the glowing stovepipe of the potbelly diesel stoves.

[Red Flag 1]

Originally Posted by Richard

Maybe they'd quit complaining if we played the Panzer Lied or Horst Wessel Lied when using the ranges...

And so it goes...

Richard

With obama on a world apology tour, what better time to complain about our military. Hell, barry bight just send them a few billion, and a lofty anti-USA speech on his next shopping trip to Europe.

RF 1

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

Ahh, I'm sorry to hear that Big Teddy. You shoulda gone in the summer. When it was too muddy or to dusty.

Anyone here ever spend Gunnery at Graf in Camp Cheb? In the winter. As a FOTB 2LT I learned exactly where I fit in the scheme . . . My cot was assigned to the corner of the GP Medium. I could see the glowing stovepipe of the potbelly diesel stoves.

You funny dozer......

Big Teddy