Q Course

BMT (RIP) · 10-28-2007, 17:49

At anytime during the Q course did you feel like you were suffering from information overload?

I can remember back to '65-'66 in SFTG. I would think can I remember all this crap!Then we went to Ft Holabird for 8 more weeks of intel training.

Poor ole Brain Housing Group must of been smoking.

BMT

lksteve · 10-28-2007, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMT

At anytime during the Q course did you feel like you were suffering from information overload?

not really...but i do recall believing that there were waaaaay too many moving parts in a BAR...

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 10-28-2007, 19:37

Sure, but with me it was really self-inflicted. I knew that I was about to walk into a buzz saw with the caliber of folks I would join on an A-team and I was determined to be able to not only excell at my job, fully understand theirs, but make sure that they would have the confidence in me to be able to stand shoulder to shoulder and one step forward of them all. But you know, even when it was all done, it was still a growing and learning exercise and more often, regardless of what I did to meet my and their expectations, I was often only able to stand in their shadow.

**Pete** · 10-28-2007, 20:15

I don't know, it was all kinda' a spotty memory. I still have my phase I Note Book and most pages start off with good notes but then about half way down the writting becomes a straight line and then drags down and off the page.

I'll have to scan and post one of the pages some day.

I think it was more like on graduation day "Now What". I found out soon enough. As an Engineer I was sent to the 82nd to help them with a winter warfare FTX. I was the PI, the only one, for instruction on winter field fortifications, icecrete, snow mine fields, yukon stove, tents, etc. On my own and back to the books.

Oh, yeah, I was a PFC and didn't have any problems moving around in conventional land. This bit was for our "little 18X" who don't know how to act in the "real Army".

Matta mile · 10-29-2007, 16:15

Of all things the freakin knots spun me out!
Most of the other stuff was "make sense" kind of stuff...but the knots..JEEZ!
I got a "lots of little ones" GO at that station.

incommin · 10-29-2007, 18:09

I don't recall that being a problem. I grew up in the military. I read military history...... when I was in basic and the class on the 1911 was starting, I field stripped the weapon and had the pieces out explaining them to the person sitting next to me.... the drill sergeant stopped the class and made some remark about having to put it together in the dark or blindfolded.....he challenged me..... I did it.... and from then on I was the "smart ass"! That kind of thing followed me all through my training. Learning all the information was easy....if I had a problem it was using all that knowledge as quickly and effectively as my peers.

Jim

x SF med · 10-30-2007, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

not really...but i do recall believing that there were waaaaay too many moving parts in a BAR...

Yeah, the Browning time at the 11B-S course (PhII) made you wonder about JMB - he must have been on some bad acid to design all those moving parts into the BAR, and then follow up with the M-2 HB .50 ... what's up with that?

**Pete** · 10-30-2007, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by x SF med

.. and then follow up with the M-2 HB .50 ... what's up with that?

The weapons guys didn't seem to have much probe with th M2 after all the teams had to lug and clean M1919A6's through Phase I.

Got a hasty burn on the web of my left hand while getting prone with the BAR one time. Never did that again. Some leasons stick with you.

**The Reaper** · 10-30-2007, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by x SF med

Yeah, the Browning time at the 11B-S course (PhII) made you wonder about JMB - he must have been on some bad acid to design all those moving parts into the BAR, and then follow up with the M-2 HB .50 ... what's up with that?

I am not old enough to have known John Browning personally, but I understand history to be this.

The M1917 .30 BMG was an evolution of existing Browning 1901 machine gun, which was also a recoil-operated, belt-fed, water-cooled gun.

The M1919 .30 BMG which followed was an evolution of the M1917 into a lighter, air-cooled version.

The M-2 .50 BMG (originally M1921) was an upscaled and evolved M1919. The original M1921 was water-cooled, like the M1917, but the M-2 evolution dispensed with the water-cooling in favor of air-cooling.

As you can see, there was an evolutionary development process, working off of the M1901 BMG.

The M1918 BAR was an effort to put portable automatic fire in the hands of the assault troops. It was designed as a replacement for the abysmal Chauchat and M1906 Hotchkiss. Trust me when I say that it was a tremendous improvement on those weapons. There was little carryover from those designs. Later auto rifles, like the 1935 Bren Gun, with a QC barrel and higher cap mags, were to improve on the BAR, but John Browning was the first to make a practical LMG/auto rifle. It has its problems and idiosyncracies, but if you were going to go "over the top" in WW I, the BAR was the gun to have. Consider it in the context of its time.

Also remember that in the 39 years between 1887 and 1926, John Moses Browning designed the M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun, the Colt Model 1897, the FN Browning M1899/M1900, the Colt Model 1900, the
Colt Model 1902, the Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer, the Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless, the Colt Model 1905, the Remington Model 8 (1906), the Colt 1908 Vest Pocket, Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless, the FN Model 1910, the U.S. Model 1911, the Winchester 1887 shotgun, the Winchester Model 1894 rifle, the Winchester Model 1897 shotgun, the Browning Auto-5 shotgun, the U.S. Model 1917 water-cooled machine gun, the Model 1919 air-cooled machine gun, the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) of 1917, the Browning M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun, the Browning Hi-Power (initial design, finished by FN), and the Superposed shotgun.

I'd say he was pretty prolific and hard working.

TR

frostfire · 10-31-2007, 15:24

gentlemen, since you've been there, done that (and back again), how does that period of information overload serve you in the long run:
- Does it give a sense of ultimate confidence for any other type of study since you had conquered all that memorization/learning?
- Does it make gaining new knowledge more difficult, and lots of those prior learning are inevitably replaced?

Thank you in advance.

lksteve · 10-31-2007, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

gentlemen, since you've been there, done that (and back again), how does that period of information overload serve you in the long run:
- Does it give a sense of ultimate confidence for any other type of study since you had conquered all that memorization/learning?
- Does it make gaining new knowledge more difficult, and lots of those prior learning are inevitably replaced?

in my experience, any learning makes new learning easier...learning hard stuff makes learning new stuff easier...couple the learning in the course (minor stuff) with the learning from the older guys in the team room (major stuff) and add in experience as you go along, especially down-range (real stuff), i felt pretty comfortable trying and learning new techniques, professions, etc...

this does not pertain to calculus, differential equations, or physical chemistry...

there is no such thing as ultimate confidence...at least, not for long...IMNSHO...

NousDefionsDoc · 10-31-2007, 18:18

I did at first at 300F1. I fell in with a study group and actually tried to memorize everything (I guess that's what we were doing). Failed the first test miserably. So I fell out of the study group and started learning medicine instead of learning answers to questions. Sat out on the balconey with a beer and the books after afternoon PT. Smoked right through it after that. As far as I can remember, none of that study group made it past 300F1.

We had some really good Instructors. Thanks Doc Farr.

frostfire · 10-31-2007, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

this does not pertain to calculus, differential equations, or physical chemistry...

sigh...I was about to steer the questions towards that direction. I almost lost it when I discovered all the fluid dynamics stuff I used to get my A's from now just flies way over my head. I know you can always relearn things, but it seems certain old information (engineering) can be easily overridden by the new information (medical).
Do you QPs retain both the old and new MOS knowledge when cross trained?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

... actually tried to memorize everything (I guess that's what we were doing).

I guess I have much to work on, I'm inclined to believe with medical stuff, you just do that: memorize, and that folks in med school must have photographic memory. Ah well, I did count the cost and am doing my best.

lksteve · 10-31-2007, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

Do you QPs retain both the old and new MOS knowledge when cross trained?

Cross-training is a never ending process...a good team sergeant will send a weapons guy and a medic out to make commo...he'll have the junior engineer start an IV on the XO, the weapons guy will provide instruction on counter force charges..and, he'll do this at the drop of a hat...while some of us have had formal cross training (I attended both the engineer and weapons courses), most of it is done at team level (or at least it was when I was in)...and the truth be known, most of the training i had survived commissioning...

the difference between formal training in an academic environment and cross training on an ODA is that after an instructional period we had immediate practical applications...within an hour after a newbie's first block of IV instruction, he was running a hose into either the XO or detachment commander...(smart team sergeants have the older guys on the teams run their IVs)...and we did this wherever...in the team room, in the field, in a hangar waiting for an aircraft...

when it comes to academic stuff, the truth be known, new stuff I learn does replace some of the other stuff...my knowledge of Middle Eastern history has been relegated to the attic of my brain housing group, while GPS survey techniques, the finer points of boundary law and new software supplants it...

NDD makes some good points too...learning the subject instead of the test is crucial...and of course, a beer or two probably eases the pain of studying...

LongWire · 11-01-2007, 16:42

Myself as a Former 18E, can say that I was never the Test taking kind of guy. I cant say that I was completely overloaded with info, but I never performed at tests as well as I would have liked. Now that being said, hand me a radio and I can make it go. I've known plenty of Echos who could answer all the questions correctly, but given the meat and potatoes (radio etc.) couldn't perform to what I would consider a standard.

No names mentioned, Dec 01, after telling certain individuals to get their comms shots with me (B tm at the time) prior to their movement to parts unknown, never did. Good thing for Iriudiums..........Downrange is never a good place to do your first troubleshooting. Sure you may need to, but you should at least have your settings good to go, prior to leaving the nest!