05-12-2013, 17:33
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#1
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: RURAL, south central Montana
Posts: 39
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Suggestons for combat handgun training--on a budget
I just finished round one of Pre-qualification shooting for our Reserve Police Academy--the "Old Guy" with his antiquated 1911 soundly outshot all the young whipper-snappers 
At the same time, I also am smart enough to know that shooting paper-targets is not the same as real-live combat shooting--where adrenalin impacts motor-skills. So my question to the folks here, is this: when you are on a very limited budget, what are some recommendations for trying to duplicate those conditions (high stress) for training--or is it even reasonable to attempt to do so?
The "Old Guy" appreciates your input 
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Chaplain Scott is offline
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05-12-2013, 17:50
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott
I just finished round one of Pre-qualification shooting for our Reserve Police Academy--the "Old Guy" with his antiquated 1911 soundly outshot all the young whipper-snappers
At the same time, I also am smart enough to know that shooting paper-targets is not the same as real-live combat shooting--where adrenalin impacts motor-skills. So my question to the folks here, is this: when you are on a very limited budget, what are some recommendations for trying to duplicate those conditions (high stress) for training--or is it even reasonable to attempt to do so?
The "Old Guy" appreciates your input |
Dry fire. BB gun. Airsoft.
TR
__________________
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The Reaper is offline
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05-12-2013, 22:17
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Dry fire. BB gun. Airsoft.
TR
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and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well
For android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.stimer&hl=en
If using iphone/ipad
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shot...295005845?mt=8
then run to standards, don't cheat, and increase your combat load, fatigue level. For example:
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
Had one "student"with mutiple deployements once who was very happy once he got all groups in A zone after several attempts. I informed him that he still failed the time. He responded that he didn't care for time. He then walked away and I had no intention of calling him back. Oh well, some shooters stop at good and prevent themselves from great. You can lead a horse......
FWIW, someone wrote that there's no timer in combat, but the sob's intending you harm are probably in a hurry. Thus, time constraint can be a cheap, effective, and practical stress replicator.
__________________
"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4
"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins
"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle
Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.
INDNJC
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frostfire is offline
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05-13-2013, 17:26
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well. -------------
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OK - You get value added points for these!  My PACT Club timer won't pick up Airsoft noise and practicing to par time isn't quite as exciting. Thanks.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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05-13-2013, 23:07
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
OK - You get value added points for these! My PACT Club timer won't pick up Airsoft noise and practicing to par time isn't quite as exciting. Thanks. |
yippee...what price do I get with the points exchanged? A trip to NRA HP matches for nostalgia ? A match m9/1911 loaner to shoot P100 this year?
Anyhow, I was surprised as well when I found out the $150 timer would not pick up dry fire (both hammer and striker) and airsoft.
Beware though. I haven't figured out all the kinks with the echo function, but it makes your performance on the android/iphone much faster than the pro timer. Along the line of .61 vs. .95 which does make a big difference eventually. So run with live fire with the pro timer and validate the cost-effective training
__________________
"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4
"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins
"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle
Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.
INDNJC
Last edited by frostfire; 05-13-2013 at 23:10.
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frostfire is offline
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05-14-2013, 04:57
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Western New York State
Posts: 318
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An investment in a .22 lr upper for your pistol can also be utilized. In short order it will be paid for by the cost difference in ammunition. (current availability of .22 lr might be a problem for some, but it should level out in time)
For draws and first shot it is typically exactly the same. Multiple shots is not giving you the recoil however, so I practiced my draws and first shots, then switched back to real ammo for my controlled pairs or multiple target engagements.
For most of us that carry as civilians, first shot in my opinion is going to be the most important.
__________________
Enlightenment comes with age. In SF we cannot wait for aged enlightenment to be successful. We need to be successful now. This means hunt out education, seek advice from experts, become an expert, and never stop learning. Never let your ego keep you from asking questions! Pass on your knowledge! (Pistol Pete)
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Destrier is offline
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05-14-2013, 16:09
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#7
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
and a timer. No need to go all $$$$ fancy. These pick dry fire sound and airsoft just fine. They're free as well
For android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.stimer&hl=en
If using iphone/ipad
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shot...295005845?mt=8
then run to standards, don't cheat, and increase your combat load, fatigue level. For example:
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
Had one "student"with mutiple deployements once who was very happy once he got all groups in A zone after several attempts. I informed him that he still failed the time. He responded that he didn't care for time. He then walked away and I had no intention of calling him back. Oh well, some shooters stop at good and prevent themselves from great. You can lead a horse......
FWIW, someone wrote that there's no timer in combat, but the sob's intending you harm are probably in a hurry. Thus, time constraint can be a cheap, effective, and practical stress replicator. |
Nice App, thanks.
Sorry to hear about your student, hopefully they don't learn the hard way --- .500 is too slow...half it and you're in the ballpark...Tested App with revolver dry fire ....there's a delay from start before timing on droid...enough so it doesn't get the first shot...
__________________
Δεν είμαι άξιος του σταυρού του Ιησού οπή, Andreas
Denial and inactivity prepare people well for roles of victim and corpse
Last edited by badshot; 05-14-2013 at 16:22.
Reason: speed
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badshot is offline
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05-19-2013, 15:09
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#8
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: RURAL, south central Montana
Posts: 39
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Thanks for the replies---been busy--death in the family, finishing up the Academy, etc, etc.......
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Chaplain Scott is offline
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05-20-2013, 17:52
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NoVA
Posts: 171
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Condolences on your loss.
As for training, another option might be using a Laserlyte system with your carry weapon and a timer. They don't look durable enough to be a primary training tool (no first hand experience here), but may add some variety to help keep the stress level up.
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Tree Potato is offline
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05-21-2013, 01:56
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#10
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Asset
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
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Practice with your TV set.
First, clear the handgun. Clear it twice, three times. Make very sure.
Pick an actor in a TV movie or series, and each time that actor comes on screen, shoot him or her in the head.
Modern movies and TV shows have very fast-paced editing. Scenes quickly change, unexpectedly. You will not know when the scene will shift, and you will learn to get your front sight on the actor's head quickly, and squeeze off a dry-fire hammer or striker fall, very quickly.
Has anyone ever put a round through their TV doing this? I suspect so. Don't you do that. Clear your weapon, repeatedly and frequently. And, don't mix alcohol with this practice.
Nice added benefit: the bright TV back-lighting on your front sight lets you clearly see where the sight went at the moment of striker or hammer fall. Call your shots, low, high, left, right. Look for the pattern and correct it.
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Ken Cox is offline
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05-21-2013, 08:04
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Practice with your TV set.
First, clear the handgun. Clear it twice, three times. Make very sure.
Pick an actor in a TV movie or series, and each time that actor comes on screen, shoot him or her in the head.
Modern movies and TV shows have very fast-paced editing. Scenes quickly change, unexpectedly. You will not know when the scene will shift, and you will learn to get your front sight on the actor's head quickly, and squeeze off a dry-fire hammer or striker fall, very quickly.
Has anyone ever put a round through their TV doing this? I suspect so. Don't you do that. Clear your weapon, repeatedly and frequently. And, don't mix alcohol with this practice.
Nice added benefit: the bright TV back-lighting on your front sight lets you clearly see where the sight went at the moment of striker or hammer fall. Call your shots, low, high, left, right. Look for the pattern and correct it.
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Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-21-2013, 09:52
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#12
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Asset
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
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Team Sergeant wrote:
Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
=====
How embarrassing.
Second post as a new guy and I seriously step on it.
Sorry about that.
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Ken Cox is offline
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05-21-2013, 10:03
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#13
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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We do all of our handgun training with snap caps, these days.
__________________
"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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05-21-2013, 10:15
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Team Sergeant wrote:
Ken, did you happen to read the rules of this forum?
"Practice with your TV set."
Do us a favor and keep little gems like that for AR15.com
=====
How embarrassing.
Second post as a new guy and I seriously step on it.
Sorry about that.
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You might want to re-read the rules again also.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=3452
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-21-2013, 10:35
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#15
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Free Pennsylvania
Posts: 138
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To the QPs:
What are your thoughts on DA/SA as a platform for learning- good, bad, neutral vs DAO or striker handguns?
From what I interpret upper body/grip strength and basic marksmanship principles are more important than the tool, but was wondering what your individual thoughts of having two different trigger pulls, another variable, as being a good or bad thing for a novice trying to first learn to put bullets through the same hole.
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Patriot007 is offline
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