Scope Level

NousDefionsDoc · 11-23-2005, 19:12

Anybody got a preference for anti-canting scope levels?

longrange1947 · 11-23-2005, 19:36

Level and plumb bob. Place a spirit level on the weapon and level it. Then look throught he scope and align the reticle with the plumb bob hanging form the rafters. Easiest and least expensive way I know. Takes nothing special and you can see the cant immediately. Once the cross hairs are set, use your eye to see if it is level. Those scope levels to use while shooting is BS. You can not look at the level and your crosshairs at the same time. You will screw up your shot.

NousDefionsDoc · 11-23-2005, 19:58

Thanks LR.

"Rafters"? Where the hell are you shooting?

I mostly wanted one to play with. I would never admit to yo...shoot while looking at a level, even with one eye.

longrange1947 · 11-24-2005, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Thanks LR.

"Rafters"? Where the hell are you shooting?

I mostly wanted one to play with. I would never admit to yo...shoot while looking at a level, even with one eye.

We set up our scopes in the storage area of our team room, and I call those beams holdiing the ceiling tiles rafters becasue I can never remember what they are called.

There are several different types of scope levels out there but most require you to take your eye off the reticle to insure that the scope is level. That gives Murphy that time required to move the target.

I can not make any recommendation as I have not used any of the current crop. They are sold at almost any of the gun sites on the net like midway and Brownells though. Good luck with them and Happy Thanksgiving NDD!

NousDefionsDoc · 11-24-2005, 11:58

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well Brother.

Gene Econ · 11-27-2005, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Anybody got a preference for anti-canting scope levels?

Doc:

No advice on a brand. I use a level on the front sight of my Match Rifle and it does give an edge. I have no problems with it attracting my eye. I look at it and level the rifle before shooting and that is about it. Not even sure if it takes more time or not as I do so pretty much automatically.

As for optics -- I don't use one as I have never had a need. The reason is that when I use an optic, it is for a thousand yard High Power match and the firing lines are reasonably level, the target frames are square and are reasonably level, and the top of the pitts are reasonably level. Not a problem for me to eyeball the horizontal cross hair and level the optic well enough.

I have advised guys who like the Barret to spend the twenty dollars on one and see if it gives them an edge at ranges past about 800 yards. The reason is simple. Field firing is done on real broken ground where nothing is level.

Not sure you will see a improvement in hit probabilities as your eyes can really do a good job of ensuring the rifle is level by comparing the horizontal cross hair with the terrain.

I bought a cheapo plastic carpenters level and removed the spirit levels from said level. I put one of these little levels on the rail of the rifle to level out said rifle. Given your optic will be affixed to its rings and the rail of said rifle, you can adjust the optic spirit level pretty well by simply eyeballing the bubble on the rail itself and rotating said optic level around until it too is level. Tighten and look again as screws tend to rotate things. Once you are convinced that optic level is good -- lock-tite the screws or that level will rotate around the optic.

Am curious if you see any real difference in hit probabilites that you can attribute to an optic level.

Gene

longrange1947 · 11-28-2005, 07:35

Gene - We tried some back a waile ago and I didn't see any change. there are some many objects out there for reference and just experience gets the scope level.

Glancing away from a target in a battle area to insure scope level begs for the target to be gone when you glance back.

Gene Econ · 11-29-2005, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Gene - We tried some back a waile ago and I didn't see any change. there are some many objects out there for reference and just experience gets the scope level.

Rick:

Thats pretty much why I don't use one on an optic for match shooting. I never really considered one for tactical situations.

Guys who seem to like the Barret ask me about them and I tell them what you have said and then let them make their own decisions. If Joe gets his mind on buying one, he will buy it no matter what anyone says. So I tell them to go ahead and buy one and I assist them in setting the thing up level. We go to a field fire range and Joe doesn't do any better with one than without because his eyes can see well enough to level a optic on his own and the Barrets suck to begin with so things become a draw.

Can't say I know any of them who had such devices swearing by them or at them. After a few shots they generally ignore them.

Gene

longrange1947 · 11-30-2005, 08:09

Gene - Yeah I rank them along side the cosin indicator for doping slope. Problem is that the method normally taught is a wrong for longer shots and steeper angles. It works for the "normal engagement ranges" but not for hte extended shots in mountains. Need to use the bullet drop to compute the actual compensation. Otherwise you will shoot under the target.

That is always fun to explain to a guy.

Gene Econ · 11-30-2005, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Gene - Yeah I rank them along side the cosin indicator for doping slope. That is always fun to explain to a guy.

He, he, he.

Had a fellow ask us for some eight to ten foot platforms for use on a 300 yard long range yesterday. I called the sergeant and after informing him that we had no such platforms -- I then asked him why he wanted them.

You know the response. Learning how to shoot from roof tops.

OK -- you deal with 18s. I deal with "others" and most of the "others" aren't combat arms. Roof tops to me means a guy is on a four story roof and is shooting someone who is directly below him or perhaps across a very narrow street.

I explained it to this fellow but he couldn't comprehend that eight or twelve feet above the ground means absolutely nothing in terms of zeros. I just told him that unless they were on a tower about fifty feet above the ground and were shooting damn near straight down, a center hold with their battlesight zero would be just fine.

Remember -- you work with 18s. I don't. This fellow knew no more what a '300 meter battlesight' and 'center hold' was, than he did quantum physics. However, he accepted that we didn't have any 'towers' from which to shoot so his problems were solved.

You may say "WTF"? I say you wouldn't want anyone but this particular fellow to get your vehicle up and running again, or pehaps your ammo dropped, or your pay fixed, if you needed any of these things fixed, so I kind of put ignorance into perspective. I will hand it to the guy, he damn sure wasn't scared to ask.

Gene -- Mentor of Problem Solving

longrange1947 · 11-30-2005, 22:11

Gene - Ignorance never bothers me. It is curable with education. Now Stupid, THAT is forever!

It is hard to explain to guys that high angle shooting is difficult to replicate on a normal post range and on most military posts. The angle and and range combo is hard to do. The next thing to watch is that the human eye sees in height more than width. That is the reason that an 'E-type' does NOT look twice as tall as wide, it looks almost three times as tall. This also makes "eyeballing" an angle a very bad idea. I have had guys, both students and instructors, estimate an angle in degrees; ie, more or less than X degrees. They always grossly over estimate the angle. A measureing device is needed but not attached to the rifle. And most shots are well within the point blank zero in an urban environment.

Now get onto a water tower that is 15 to 20 stories high and look out about 600 meters and you may need an adjustment.

HOLLiS · 11-30-2005, 23:01

LR 1947, I have a compass with a angel of slope measurement. Your 100%, I have never been able, nor know others who could accurately estimate angle of slope. It could be, because we never do, or the eye does not see it or?? What I keep in mind, bullet drop is less shooting down hill. What does that Practically mean to mean? hopefully, the elk winds up in the freezer.

H.