11-04-2008, 22:39
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#1
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: A Red State
Posts: 9
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Okay, BHO won. How does this affect SF?
I'm 18X bound in May '09. How will an Obama presidency, if at all, affect the SF community in both broad and specific terms? This question is for the QPs.
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colin is offline
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11-05-2008, 08:48
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#2
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 14
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If I may tack on a more specific question to the OP...
With BHO's proposed military cuts, is there any chance at all that the 18x program would dissolve?
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KiloNovember is offline
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11-05-2008, 08:55
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aberdeen, NC
Posts: 397
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In my 21 years of service I served under both a Rep. and Dem. that cut the military (Bush 41 and Clinton 42). It was the peace dividend!!!
Even then SF grew, as the world was not two superpowers anymore.
While proxy wars and confilicts waned; terrorism, drug cartels and genocide by small countries came to the fore (and remain).
You will have a job, you will probably have equipment, but spending may get tight, that is the congesses job.
The dems failed to fund armor for the bulk of the force and so did the reps when they replaced them.
I venture to say you will deploy and fight more! (possibly with less support)
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mcarey is offline
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11-05-2008, 09:08
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,824
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Colin:
You might want to do some more reading before starting threads.
There are several pertaining to the coming Administration's impact on the military.
As SF goes, I agree with mcarey, but had the pleasure of serving under Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush. The Congress is as big an issue as the POTUS. Can anyone remember Pat Schroeder and Ron Dellums?
The years under Carter were like being in a wasteland. We lost an AC SF Group then, and two RC SF Groups under Clinton. Reagan gave us back 1st Group, GHW Bush 3rd Group, and GW Bush the 4th battalions. Clinton didn't really understand the military, surrounded himself with people who didn't understand us either, and was generally afraid to use us for anything other than PK missions.
The need for SF will not go away, but if the Congress cuts the 25% that they have promised to before rebuilding the post-war military, you will see what it was like under Carter again. The Army budget is largely personnel, as we have less big ticket items than any of the services. You cut 25% and force structure has to be slashed. That could include AC Groups or the 4th battalions.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-05-2008, 09:22
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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Agreed
I am like The Reaper, in that I also survived the Carter years.
It affects more than just us. It affects the world view and respect. That's why Iran took the hostages and was able to keep for 444 days. Hope conditions never return to that low ebb. Blitz
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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11-05-2008, 10:02
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Hey Now....
Back up a couple. I got Nixon and Ford plus the others.
Ford was why we got Carter.
MSM played a part in that one also. Every night was a clip of Ford tripping over something.
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Pete is offline
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11-05-2008, 10:03
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Back up a couple. I got Nixon and Ford plus the others.
Ford was why we got Carter.
MSM played a part in that one also. Every night was a clip of Ford tripping over something.
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Actually, I think Nixon is why we got Carter.
They just made Ford out to be a stooge, which in retrospect, he was not.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-05-2008, 10:49
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin
How will an Obama presidency, if at all, affect the SF community in both broad and specific terms?
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MOO--
- TBD based on the world situation
- SF's fate has historically suffered more from GOs (
 ) than from any particular POTUS...and I assume it will continue to be that way
Richard's $.02 
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
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Richard is offline
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11-05-2008, 12:03
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#9
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
The years under Carter were like being in a wasteland. We lost an AC SF Group then, and two RC SF Groups under Clinton.
TR
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Which AC-SFG was lost under Carter?
As I recall, the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 8th were lost during Nixon's watch.
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11-05-2008, 12:10
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
Which AC-SFG was lost under Carter?
As I recall, the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 8th were lost during Nixon's watch.
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IIRC, it was First, but I will have to check the dates.
My mistake, it was June 1974.
I remember when Reagan brought it back in 1984.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-05-2008, 12:14
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Early 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
IIRC, it was First, but I will have to check the dates.
I remember when Reagan brought it back.
TR
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Members of the 1st were flowing into the 5th and 7th by early 74. A number of Barracks Rats had just come back and somewhat disheartened by the change of location.
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Pete is offline
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11-05-2008, 12:47
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
Which AC-SFG was lost under Carter?
As I recall, the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 8th were lost during Nixon's watch.
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Quote:
SF's fate has historically suffered more from GOs ( ) than from any particular POTUS...and I assume it will continue to be that way
Richard's $.02
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And IIRC, which becomes more difficult daily, the loss of those groups was more a result of Gen "Clank-Clank, I'm a Tank" Creighton Abrams being in the position he was, than RMN.
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"I took a different route from most and came into Special Forces..." - Col. Nick Rowe
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ZonieDiver is offline
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11-05-2008, 13:09
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
Posts: 6,690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonieDiver
And IIRC, which becomes more difficult daily, the loss of those groups was more a result of Gen "Clank-Clank, I'm a Tank" Creighton Abrams being in the position he was, than RMN.
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You are SO RIGHT. Congress cuts funds but the Pentagon "GO's" determine what is cut. Congress only pays the bill. Just like if you cut the HQ6 shopping funds. She is the one that quits paying for the beer and keeps buying the make-up for her. You bitch and she keeps on doing it. Abrams hated SF and only had the conventional outlook.
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SF_BHT is offline
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11-05-2008, 18:22
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 333
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My concern is that many in the new administration will have no experience with the military whatsoever and SOF in particular and, as a result, will have some really unrealistic expectations as to what is possible, what is not and what is just a plain old fashioned bad idea. These are people who wholeheartedly believe that CT is a law enforcement problem and that all our efforts should be focused on arresting OBL. Lord knows what kind of crap that they will dream up for us to execute. I am heartened by the fact that Mr. Gates may be asked to remain as the SECDEF at least for a while longer.
SFC W
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uboat509 is offline
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11-05-2008, 18:30
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uboat509
My concern is that many in the new administration will have no experience with the military whatsoever and SOF in particular and, as a result, will have some really unrealistic expectations as to what is possible, what is not and what is just a plain old fashioned bad idea. These are people who wholeheartedly believe that CT is a law enforcement problem and that all our efforts should be focused on arresting OBL. Lord knows what kind of crap that they will dream up for us to execute. I am heartened by the fact that Mr. Gates may be asked to remain as the SECDEF at least for a while longer.
SFC W
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As well as a liability, that could be an asset! IF the right people in the right places get the 'ear' of people who make decisions within the new administration, "our" view could be advanced. It can also work conversely. I hope we have those "right" people!
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"I took a different route from most and came into Special Forces..." - Col. Nick Rowe
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ZonieDiver is offline
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