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Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
Chew away, we can settle it on the range shoulder to shoulder using off the shelf guns, off the shelf ammo and holsters, case of beer to the victor……  ...Another good reason not to take classes from a competitive shooter is teaching simple muscle reflex exercises (such as the AMU shooter in the video) that has little purpose in the world of police officers and military. ...Teaching them a magazine change they are not used to or not utilizing their “work” gear is ludicrous, if you doubt me as some police officers how many have tried to “load” a flashlight into their empty weapon……I would like to see police officers and conventional military with an improved approach to marksmanship and less on the “speed” training. Speed is nice, sometimes, but accuracy is a must. You can be the fastest in the world but if you cannot hit the water for falling off the boat then you can forget about winning any fight. I’ll stick with taking shooting classes and the mindset that goes along with it from combat veterans as I've yet to hear about a national sports champ capable of standing toe to toe with the al-qaeda idiots and succeeding.  TS |
TS:
Again I 'chopped' up your paragraph. When I say this I mean I tried to reduce the original message to major points. Hopefully I did not change your intent or take these out of context. I don't have much more than out of the box pistols so you wouldn't need to supply me with one but I won't turn down your offer for ammunition. Must be nice to get your hands on a case or two of factory loads once in a while. Win or lose -- you can have the beer. Makes me piss too much and I can't take the alcohol well anymore. Don't understand why either!
This discussion has been quite useful to me as I have always wanted to understand the logic of soldiers who reject competitive shooting in terms of any tie in with military training. I will admit that you have come the closest to stating things that I can understand -- although I will disagree with your points almost completely.
The guy tried to load his flashlight into the pistol because the training focused more on 'muscle memory' than the reality called situational awareness. One thing a champion shooter can do is train guys to be very aware of conditions and to be extremely decisive in action. Unfortunately, systems buy into repetitive drills as opposed to reality of situations so a outfit who hires a champion shooter only demands he teach a shooter to be a better shooter without the burden of reality. Not my problem, the problem is one of the outfit who hired the guy and who could not articulate their requirements in the contract. Too bad that police officer didn't realize he was pulling out a flashlight instead of a magazine. Bet that trained him to be more aware though. He, he, he.
There are from six to eight combat veterans who work with me in training soldiers from two Stryker Brigades here on the skills involved in combat marksmanship. We use techniques of sports psychology in almost all of our training and we have seen a quantum improvement in situational awarenes and marksmanship skills as a result. It is interesting that none of them have rejected any competitive marksmanship techniques that I have used either. They know that these techniques of positive coaching and mental attitude are related to competitive shooting and they don't seem to care. I haven't heard one of these guys say a word to anyone about their combat experiences although they will try to set conditions in training that are related to their experiences from time to time. They just don't seem too concerned about having a CIB.
Most of our efforts as of late have been in training leaders who have multiple combat tours. This isn't because anyone is forcing these leaders to take our training and learn our techniques of training. They want to see what we are doing as they have a desire to make their own training and skills better. Honestly, none of them have cared about combat experience. Not sure why but I have found that to be the rule rather than an exception. They don't say much about their combat experiences either but they normally say that the training is more focused on reality. They will also use the philosophies and concepts in their own trainig and for a change they are able to see a cause and effect -- positive or negative -- and they become very fast at changing conditions in order to keep their men focused on a clear end state.
The 'speed' issue seems to be a common thread in thinking. I don't view speed as a stand alone issue and if guys start going to fast for performance, we slow them down using the identical coaching techniques used in High Power rifle competition in fact. My observations from talking with these combat veterans is that universally they believe they aren't fast enough. Very few believed they weren't precise enough. The reason why they thought they were precise enough is that they normally shot the guy who shot at them. Or they shot enough to make the other guy stop trying to kill them. The usual facts are that they simply didn't see the threat until it threatened. Human nature demands a solution, even if the circumstances are beyond the ability of a human to control. So, these combat veterans settled on speed being the issue instead of accepting a very specific circumstance that they had no control over. So far we have found that using sports psychology techniques allows for a logical method of putting things into perspective in terms of perceptions that most guys will accept -- thus allowing them to work on things that they can control and that they need to perfect. Such as precision over speed which normally is more true than not. That is one of many examples but basically we use sports psychology along with the training and we have seen positive results.
I thought of this and wanted to put it out to see how folks think.
Lets say I meet an NCO or Officer who has a CIB and is also Presidents Hundred and Distinguished. Oh yes, these folks do exist and more so than one would believe. How do I know he is using competitive techniques or combat experience when he offers suggestions or coaching? How can I tell if his mindset is one of a competitive shooter or a combat veteran?
I have a fire to put out so must go. I welcome comments on this entire issue as it is broadening my own knowledge.
Gene