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OcdtADF · 06-23-2009, 16:19

Razor

Your right about everything you say in your post. Though I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Yes urban track did not finish first in any area of the testing. Except one of the urban tests. The weaknesses associated with it during the trials were put down to the use of black on the uniform. Criticising the prototype before adjusting is a bit premature. Though the use of black remains a contentious issue amount camouflage developers and testers its removal from the urban track pattern was judged to have fixed the flaws associated with it.

PEO Response to criticism of the UCP
‘There has been much discussion about the Universal Camouflage Pattern used on the ACU. Extensive laboratory and field tests were conducted on 11 candidate patterns and colors during development. MultiCam, then called Scorpion, was one of the patterns subjected to a series of laboratory and field evaluations, in multiple, realistic, operational environments under varied terrain and lighting conditions in 2003-04. The camouflage pattern selected was determined to provide the best overall effective concealment in multiple, operational environments, including urban, woodland, and desert scenarios.’
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003418.html

While I will accept criticism of the assumption the testers made in relation to black; namely that its removal would remove urban track’s flaws. I’m not sure I can be so accommodating in relation to your assumptions about my argument.

For an interesting article by hyperstealth biotech on the use of black in uniforms
http://www.hyperstealth.com/acupat/

Note there is an opposition argument about black arguably more detectable when moving. I’m not sure what side of the black in uniform debate I’m on.

My assertion, one that I’m not sure you’ve spoken to is that testing in desert, woodland, urban and desert urban was not sufficient to provide a decent camouflage outcome for the future force warrior program. Within the parameters set, the UCP was the best pattern they could get. I’m sure if they tested it again with a more diverse set of terrains they would have discovered that the patterns flaws were probably broader than the use of black in its texturing. Almost all PEO responses to the discussion of the camouflage choice sight its ‘tested’ superiority in the mentioned areas. My statement about the Camo being the best for the desert should be taken in that context. What the PRO responses don’t do is discuss whether those areas are the ones being encountered by soldiers under fire.

There has been a lot of conspiracy debate over the decision to use the Urban Track pattern. It seems to me that the discussion for the most part needs to be about the testing procedure itself. Considering the amount of money involved the United States Military probably should have seen this coming. Most of my familiarity with this issue is from the position of an outsider. My knowledge about testing procedure comes from my own country and may not be totally applicable. Also our Aussie desert camouflage (DPDU) looks like a packet of brown jelly beans. Probably why were using Auscam in parts of Afghanistan. My country needs a discussion like this, because Auscam, though surprisingly effective (this is luck, because we have a similar coloured environment, the Brits would be screwed if they tried to use DPM) was not designed for Afghanistan nor does it take advantage of a digitised pattern. I wish the discussion about camouflage was like this in our country.

As previosly stated it also seems that the argument has already been made about the ACU in Afghanistan

Recently the army has decided to order a new combat uniform for Afghanistan. An article in the army times, quoting HR2346 pointed out that while functional in Iraq it was not suited for Afghanistan. The House Resolution Ordered The DOD to:

There is also a report on the matter floating around. It was attached to HR 2346. Have not been able to find it.

‘Take immediate action to provide combat uniforms to personnel deployed to Afghanistan with a camouflage pattern that is suited to the environment of Afghanistan’
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/0...forms_061509w/

Here is an interesting little piece on the UCP, it gives some discussion (unofficial) of the bias towards what the trails saw as ‘currant and future operating environments’
http://www.slate.com/id/2106359/

06-23-2009, 16:19	#35
OcdtADF BANNED USER Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Adelaide Posts: 22	Razor Your right about everything you say in your post. Though I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Yes urban track did not finish first in any area of the testing. Except one of the urban tests. The weaknesses associated with it during the trials were put down to the use of black on the uniform. Criticising the prototype before adjusting is a bit premature. Though the use of black remains a contentious issue amount camouflage developers and testers its removal from the urban track pattern was judged to have fixed the flaws associated with it. PEO Response to criticism of the UCP ‘There has been much discussion about the Universal Camouflage Pattern used on the ACU. Extensive laboratory and field tests were conducted on 11 candidate patterns and colors during development. MultiCam, then called Scorpion, was one of the patterns subjected to a series of laboratory and field evaluations, in multiple, realistic, operational environments under varied terrain and lighting conditions in 2003-04. The camouflage pattern selected was determined to provide the best overall effective concealment in multiple, operational environments, including urban, woodland, and desert scenarios.’ http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003418.html While I will accept criticism of the assumption the testers made in relation to black; namely that its removal would remove urban track’s flaws. I’m not sure I can be so accommodating in relation to your assumptions about my argument. For an interesting article by hyperstealth biotech on the use of black in uniforms http://www.hyperstealth.com/acupat/ Note there is an opposition argument about black arguably more detectable when moving. I’m not sure what side of the black in uniform debate I’m on. My assertion, one that I’m not sure you’ve spoken to is that testing in desert, woodland, urban and desert urban was not sufficient to provide a decent camouflage outcome for the future force warrior program. Within the parameters set, the UCP was the best pattern they could get. I’m sure if they tested it again with a more diverse set of terrains they would have discovered that the patterns flaws were probably broader than the use of black in its texturing. Almost all PEO responses to the discussion of the camouflage choice sight its ‘tested’ superiority in the mentioned areas. My statement about the Camo being the best for the desert should be taken in that context. What the PRO responses don’t do is discuss whether those areas are the ones being encountered by soldiers under fire. There has been a lot of conspiracy debate over the decision to use the Urban Track pattern. It seems to me that the discussion for the most part needs to be about the testing procedure itself. Considering the amount of money involved the United States Military probably should have seen this coming. Most of my familiarity with this issue is from the position of an outsider. My knowledge about testing procedure comes from my own country and may not be totally applicable. Also our Aussie desert camouflage (DPDU) looks like a packet of brown jelly beans. Probably why were using Auscam in parts of Afghanistan. My country needs a discussion like this, because Auscam, though surprisingly effective (this is luck, because we have a similar coloured environment, the Brits would be screwed if they tried to use DPM) was not designed for Afghanistan nor does it take advantage of a digitised pattern. I wish the discussion about camouflage was like this in our country. As previosly stated it also seems that the argument has already been made about the ACU in Afghanistan Recently the army has decided to order a new combat uniform for Afghanistan. An article in the army times, quoting HR2346 pointed out that while functional in Iraq it was not suited for Afghanistan. The House Resolution Ordered The DOD to: There is also a report on the matter floating around. It was attached to HR 2346. Have not been able to find it. ‘Take immediate action to provide combat uniforms to personnel deployed to Afghanistan with a camouflage pattern that is suited to the environment of Afghanistan’ http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/0...forms_061509w/ Here is an interesting little piece on the UCP, it gives some discussion (unofficial) of the bias towards what the trails saw as ‘currant and future operating environments’ http://www.slate.com/id/2106359/ Last edited by OcdtADF; 06-23-2009 at 23:32.
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