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**Peregrino** · 03-30-2008, 16:59

It was intended to be a wake-up call. I've taken that "hard look at yourself" you speak of and personally I'm still trying to reconcile the necessities for survival with the ideals I've dedicated my life to defending. I've studied conflict long enough to accept that this is probably an "eggs to omelet" situation. It doesn't mean I'm happy about it, just that I think I'm being a little more realistic than you in my assessments. When my enemies tell me their plans, I give them due credence. If Islam ever gains the upper hand in America you will be a Moslem, living on your knees, or dead. The idealism you so passionately espouse will also be dead; along with all vestiges of the society that fostered it. The Koran demands it. The Islamists have been telling us what they intend for 1400 YEARS. They've come pretty close to making it stick a couple of times. Unfortunately that happened so long ago that Western Civilization has forgotten it. (Who remembers Tours or the Gates of Vienna - or what losing either one of those battles would have meant for the West?)

Flower girls and kabob sellers are almost completely irrelevant. In terms of the "human terrain" of this conflict my principle interest in them is to co-opt them into assimilating into mainstream America - it's the only way to keep them out of the fight. It might even get them to help against the radicals that rule Islam. You're the analyst - have you forgotten why the phrase "if you're not for us, you're against us" has always applied in culture wars? Or are you denying that this is a war of cultures?

I'm well aware of who is fighting this war. "Tabbers" make up a very small percentage of the combatants. Personally I think moderate Muslims fighting to take control of their religion from the radicals is an even smaller percentage.

03-30-2008, 16:59	#986
Peregrino Quiet Professional Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Occupied Pineland Posts: 4,701	It was intended to be a wake-up call. I've taken that "hard look at yourself" you speak of and personally I'm still trying to reconcile the necessities for survival with the ideals I've dedicated my life to defending. I've studied conflict long enough to accept that this is probably an "eggs to omelet" situation. It doesn't mean I'm happy about it, just that I think I'm being a little more realistic than you in my assessments. When my enemies tell me their plans, I give them due credence. If Islam ever gains the upper hand in America you will be a Moslem, living on your knees, or dead. The idealism you so passionately espouse will also be dead; along with all vestiges of the society that fostered it. The Koran demands it. The Islamists have been telling us what they intend for 1400 YEARS. They've come pretty close to making it stick a couple of times. Unfortunately that happened so long ago that Western Civilization has forgotten it. (Who remembers Tours or the Gates of Vienna - or what losing either one of those battles would have meant for the West?) Flower girls and kabob sellers are almost completely irrelevant. In terms of the "human terrain" of this conflict my principle interest in them is to co-opt them into assimilating into mainstream America - it's the only way to keep them out of the fight. It might even get them to help against the radicals that rule Islam. You're the analyst - have you forgotten why the phrase "if you're not for us, you're against us" has always applied in culture wars? Or are you denying that this is a war of cultures? I'm well aware of who is fighting this war. "Tabbers" make up a very small percentage of the combatants. Personally I think moderate Muslims fighting to take control of their religion from the radicals is an even smaller percentage. __________________ A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. ~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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