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Originally Posted by Ret10Echo
I would venture to say that you are neither based on previous conversations. I do not agree with your position, but I believe you to be anything but ignorant on the topic.
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I appreciate that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by sg1987
We all know of the peaceful and loving teachings of Jesus in the Scriptures.
We all know of the violent and murderous treatment proscribed for infidels in the Koran.
It seems obvious to me that a Christian who is peaceful, loving, and tolerant of others is being obedient to his faith. A hate filled murderous Christian has departed from the teachings of Christ.
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There are other schools of Islamic thought that interpret the Koran more peacefully and they believe the jihadists have departed from the teachings of the Prophet.
For example, the "sword verse" about "kill infidels wherever you find them." There are schools of Muslim thought that interpret that not as a general command, but as specific to that historical period when the Muslims where locked in a life-or-death struggle with the pagans of Arabia. Its viewed the same way Christians and Jews think of some of the wars in the Old Testament: it was an unforgiving time in history, where no quarter was asked or given, and "God's people" did what they had to do.
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It also seems obvious to me to me that a Muslim that is zealous in the slaughter of infidels, who will not convert, is being obedient to his faith. A moderate Muslim who is tolerant of others has departed from his faith. (And often is punished by the “true believers”)
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Islam is a very legalistic religion. Its all about what verse overrides what other verse. Jihadists have something called "nasikh" where they believe the later verses in the Koran override the earlier verses. This is a problem for us because the later versus come from a time when Muhammed was fighting a war of survival against the Arab pagans. Naturally, these verses are a lot more militant.
Most Muslims believe in applying verses contextually. Meaning this: they look at their situation, they look at the Koran. They study the circumstances in their life, they study the circumstances of the figures in the Koran. And then they try to draw comparisons and wisdom. This is how most of us read the Bible. We don't just say "Well Revelations came last, thats the book to follow! War, Pestilence, Famine, Death!"
(Incidentally, this is why alot of learned Islamic scholars regard the jihadists as simpletons.)
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That being said, I think of this concept of equal treatment under the law and I applied it to my own family. I have four children. Each is a member with equal rights. They are treated differently however, based upon their actions. Each must earn the privileges of the good life. If not, the deviants are not treated as the model members.
Would not the same be true for groups such as Christians and Muslims? If one group consistently demonstrates good qualities while the other is well known for acts of violence, murder, and much evil; why treat each group the same? So my answer to the original post is YES we are at war with adherents of true Islam! Why allow this virulent disease to infect our culture? If we do, it will spread. I may be just a hick from Georgia but I say we shouldn’t give it a foothold here!
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No.
In America we judge people as individuals according to their individual actions. This is the cornerstone of our legal system and our entire political identity. What you're suggesting borders on fascism.
Like I said, I'm all for punishing Wahhabists. By prosecution, by deportation, or by two in the head...whatever is appropriate. But there is such thing as a law-abiding Muslim and that Muslim deserves his rights just like you or me.