Professional Soldiers ® - View Single Post - Let's talk about our Relationship with Israel

x-factor · 05-22-2007, 16:46

This is a great thread. Most of my opinions have already been voiced in detail so I'll try to be brief.

Before Oslo, the problem with the occupied territories was that Israel wanted to own them without governing them and so the Palestinians living on that land were completely stagnated politically and economically. They kept the land because they needed it for strategic depth and thats perfectly understandable given their situation at the time, but there was still a moral imperative on them to do right by the people on that land. The Israelis did very little of that for a long time. At that point, I would have said the blame division was more or less 50-50.

However, since Israel agreed in principle to actively pursue a two-state solution, I put the blame about 80-20 on the Palestinians. Does Israel continue to be overly harsh and even cruel? Yes, in someways, but, at the core of the issue is the rejection of Israel's right to exist. Thats the ultimate sticking point that holds all the other obstacles together. If the Palestinians really wanted peace based on an equitable division and an end to violence, they could have it in six months.

The only feasible solution is a clear break with all the historical recriminations: "whatever happened in the past is in the past, we're going to go forward based on the demographic facts of who is on what land today. We can keep hating and cursing each other after that, but at least we'll have a cold war with recognized borders and clear relationship of state-vs-state to work from." In that respect Oslo was a fair deal, struck in good faith and the Palestinians threw it back in Israel (and the US') face.

To paraphrase what someone else said...if Palestine laid down its arms, there'd be (at the very least) detente. If Israel laid down their arms, there'd be a slaughter.

...

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in the history of the development of the IDF and Israeli military policy, I strongly recommend the Knives, Tanks, and Missiles: Israel's Security Revolution by Cohen, Eisenstadt, and Bacevich.

05-22-2007, 16:46	#76
x-factor Guerrilla Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 462	This is a great thread. Most of my opinions have already been voiced in detail so I'll try to be brief. Before Oslo, the problem with the occupied territories was that Israel wanted to own them without governing them and so the Palestinians living on that land were completely stagnated politically and economically. They kept the land because they needed it for strategic depth and thats perfectly understandable given their situation at the time, but there was still a moral imperative on them to do right by the people on that land. The Israelis did very little of that for a long time. At that point, I would have said the blame division was more or less 50-50. However, since Israel agreed in principle to actively pursue a two-state solution, I put the blame about 80-20 on the Palestinians. Does Israel continue to be overly harsh and even cruel? Yes, in someways, but, at the core of the issue is the rejection of Israel's right to exist. Thats the ultimate sticking point that holds all the other obstacles together. If the Palestinians really wanted peace based on an equitable division and an end to violence, they could have it in six months. The only feasible solution is a clear break with all the historical recriminations: "whatever happened in the past is in the past, we're going to go forward based on the demographic facts of who is on what land today. We can keep hating and cursing each other after that, but at least we'll have a cold war with recognized borders and clear relationship of state-vs-state to work from." In that respect Oslo was a fair deal, struck in good faith and the Palestinians threw it back in Israel (and the US') face. To paraphrase what someone else said...if Palestine laid down its arms, there'd be (at the very least) detente. If Israel laid down their arms, there'd be a slaughter. ... Incidentally, if anyone is interested in the history of the development of the IDF and Israeli military policy, I strongly recommend the Knives, Tanks, and Missiles: Israel's Security Revolution by Cohen, Eisenstadt, and Bacevich. __________________ *The strength of a nation is its knowledge. -Welsh Proverb* X Last edited by x-factor; 05-22-2007 at 17:38.
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