Thread: Pinochet DEAD
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Old 12-25-2006, 22:30   #51
The Reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EX-Gold Falcon
Into the briar batch dareth I go...

While some here might dispute Leo’s opinion concerning the thousands of “broken eggs” during Pinochet’s reign, he does possess actual firsthand experience in the region that deserves not to be ignored.

Has anyone else here spoken with a Chilean in Santiago regarding Pinochet’s effect upon their life; good or bad?

I believe that both Leozinho’s comments & opinions deserve to be weighed with the respect due to an individual with actual (and long long-term) experience in Chile.

An intellectual debate is one thing; but a dogpile is another….

Travis
Has Leozinho been denied the opportunity to express himself, offer his personal experience, or make his counter-argument? Maybe I missed that? Treated disrespectfully, especially since he stated his qualifications?

I guess my creds are also being called to question, so here goes....

Yes, I have worked in Chile off and on from 1991 through 2001. I have dealt with the government there, the military, and with Chileans both in and out of Chile from a number of different social strata. I wrote an area study of Chile in 1984 which exceeded 100 pages, during one of the more interesting periods of their history.

I have never lived there as a resident and I am not a Chilean. OTOH, I have regularly worked there, know the people, am a Latin American specialist with many years in theater, and am trained to do critical analysis and cultural relations.

Hopefully, that meets your requirements for the ability to participate in an informed discussion on Pinochet and Chile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EX-Gold Falcon
With all due respect sir, but how does one weigh the value of an innocent regardless of the number?
That would depend on the mores, values, and moral compass of the person being asked, and the person making the evaluation of the response. I am trying to determine the moral position of others while framing my response to better address their questions and comments.

Stalin said that a single death is a tragedy, and a million but a statistic. Is that your belief as well? Is the wrongful killing of a single individual equally as reprehensible as the actions of a mass murderer of 100, or a genocidal maniac killing one million?

Are you a moral absolutist as well? Are there no shades of grey?

Is a soldier who mistakenly kills a civilian, or wrongfully kills an enemy soldier equally as bad as Hitler?

How many people do you think have needlessly died in the socialist worker's paradise of Cuba over the past half century? Who do you think is responsible for that? Would the removal of Castro, had it cost one life less than he has taken have been unjustified?

Should we have stayed out of Kuwait in 1991 as well? They had not attacked us and were no military threat to us. We killed a lot of Iraqis (and some Kuwaitis as well) in the process, probably many needlessly.

Why declare war on the Germans in 1941? They had not directly attacked the US. Look at the lives that cost. Was the bombing of civlian targets in Germany necessary? After seeing what took place in Auschwitz and the other camps, would that opinion be changed?

Why not just let the Confederacy secede from the United States? More Americans died in the subsequent war than in any war in US history. Most of the Northern states had no slaves to free. Good riddance. Why should Lincoln sacrifice the blood and treasure of the United States (as well as many basic freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution) to force a group of states to involuntarily remain part of a free association? If they were part of the United States, should forcible military occupation, suspension of their American citizens' Constitutional rights, and denial of representation by their elected officials have been legal? Necessary? Permitted?

Is it right to move preemptively, or to take a few lives for the greater good of the nation (or the world), or to save many more later? Who can make that call? The World Court? The UN? The MSM?

I also find it curious that you seem to be proposing that one must be a Chilean to properly evaluate Pinochet, and yet are willing to make moral judgements of a Chilean (Pinochet) without being one.

Curious.

TR
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