[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by Sacamuelas
I think GH's point about society's basis for ethical behavior is irrelevant in a debate about a government sponsored/state public school instituting a policy of pledge reciting that contains a religious reference.

If you guys are really going to argue that "under God� doesn’t mean/infer God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost then you missed your calling as a lawyer representing our last POTUS. Your appreciation and fondness for the nuances and ambiguity that exists in our language is far more developed than mine...and I view that tactic as simply avoiding the real issue.

“ I did not have sexual relations with that woman� … well, I didn’t consider it a relationship, and I didn’t cause her reciprocal pleasure so I feel I did not lie….yadda yadda yadda…�

You guys are arguing the same way as slick willie used to...

You have your own particular interpretation of the Establishment Clause and the pledge, and when someone disagrees with you interpretation, you resort to insult and impugning integrity. If you are not just being facetious, I can think of a few unnuanced and unambiguous responses, but I won't bother.

Given that the author of the original pledge, in one of life's little ironies, was a socialist, it is not surprising that "under God" wasn't in there from the beginning. The phrase was added to the pledge specifically in response to the threat of Communism. As the legislative history notes, "[a]t this moment of our history the principles underlying our American Government and the American way of life are under attack by a system whose philosophy is at direct odds with our own. Our American Government is founded on the concept of the individuality and the dignity of the human being. Underlying this concept is the belief that the human person is important because he was created by God and endowed by Him with certain inalienable rights which no civil authority may usurp. The inclusion of God in our pledge therefore would further acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon the moral directions of the Creator. At the same time it would serve to deny the atheistic and materialistic concepts of communism with its attendant subservience of the individual. " Agree or disagree with the value of this argument - I frankly don't care - but was not part of an effort to establish the Trinity, and was in fact supported by Jewish groups, among others. Contemporaneous efforts to amend the Constitution to acknowledge "the authority and law of Jesus Christ" failed.

And the concept didn't just spring up in some fit of 1950s religious fervor. The views expressed in the Declaration of Independence have already been noted. The phrasing of "one nation, under God," though, owes its origin to these words: "...that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth." And the motto, "In God we trust," also legislated in the 1950s, comes from "And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'" from the Star-Spangled Banner, written in 1814 and made the National Anthem in 1931.

BTW, you may think the Trinity when you hear "under God", but that is your nuance. Among others, the National Jewish Coalition on Law and Political Affairs and the American Jewish Congress, both of whom have filed briefs amicus curiae in opposition to Newdow, apparently have differing views.

And turning to trivia, who can identify the public figures who dared breach the wall of separation of church and state and risk putting us on the slippery slope to theocracy with these words?

1.

And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind and the gracious favor of Almighty God.

2.

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God.

3.

Though, in reviewing the incidents of my administration, I am unconscious of intentional error, I am nevertheless too sensible of my defects not to think it probable that I may have committed many errors. Whatever they may be, I fervently beseech the Almighty to avert or mitigate the evils to which they may tend. I shall also carry with me the hope that my country will never cease to view them with indulgence; and that, after forty five years of my life dedicated to its service with an upright zeal, the faults of incompetent abilities will be consigned to oblivion, as myself must soon be to the mansions of rest.

4.

As I listened to those songs, in memory's eye I could see those staggering columns of the First World War, bending under soggy packs, on many a weary march from dripping dusk to drizzling dawn, slogging ankle-deep through the mire of shell-shocked roads, to form grimly for the attack, blue-lipped, covered with sludge and mud, chilled by the wind and rain, driving home to their objective, and for many, to the judgment seat of God. I do not know the dignity of their birth, but I do know the glory of their death. They died unquestioning, uncomplaining, with faith in their hearts, and on their lips the hope that we would go on to victory.

5.

Since the beginning of our American history we have been engaged in change, in a perpetual, peaceful revolution, a revolution which goes on steadily, quietly adjusting itself to changing conditions without the concentration camp or the quicklime in the ditch. The world order which we seek is the cooperation of free countries, working together in a friendly, civilized society.

This nation has placed its destiny in the hands, heads and hearts of its millions of free men and women, and its faith in freedom under the guidance of God. Freedom means the supremacy of human rights everywhere. Our support goes to those who struggle to gain those rights and keep them. Our strength is our unity of purpose.

To that high concept there can be no end save victory.

6.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe -- the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

7.

Something else helped the men of D-day; their rock-hard belief that Providence would have a great hand in the events that would unfold here; that God was an ally in this great cause. And so, the night before the invasion, when Colonel Wolverton asked his parachute troops to kneel with him in prayer, he told them: Do not bow your heads, but look up so you can see God and ask His blessing in what we're about to do. Also, that night, General Matthew Ridgway on his cot, listening in the darkness for the promise God made to Joshua: "I will not fail thee nor forsake thee."