Blackwater Shootout 2004
 

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/bl...analysis1.html


Did you go this year TR?

Glad to see the Military is (finally) doing testing on the LeMas ammo. Congrats Stan.

Re: Blackwater Shootout 2004
 

Yep.

Thanks for the link.

TR

Re: Re: Blackwater Shootout 2004
 

What is your opinion on the XM-8? It seems to have a lot of detractors.

Re: Re: Re: Blackwater Shootout 2004
 

I believe I was quoted in that section of the article.

Interesting residue from the OICW program, answers an unasked question. Did someone say we need a new 5.56 carbine?

May, or may not be better than the H&K M-4 with the XM-8 closed gas system.

With the 12.5" barrel, look reduced accuracy and a max effective range of about 50m. with the M855, due to lack of frag from the bullet at low velocity.

I am not a fan.

TR

TR,
have you seen the new H&K M4? 26,000 rounds, no cleaning, perfect reliability......the xm8 is a different animal....thoughts?

Played with both, haven't shot them.

The AMU requested T&E weapons from H&K, who IIRC, declined to provide them as of February.

I think the H&K M-4, as I stated has a lot of potential. That, when combined with the H&K mags, remove the majority of the problem areas from the weapon.

I can see the Army possibly upgrading to the H&K uppers and mags.

HTH.

TR

This is what is really confusing about this whole subject. Why would H&K offer two different products for the same market? I understand some of the politics involved but from a business standpoint it is just plain old stupid. Spend all that time and money working on perfecting the XM-8 and then you undercut that project with an improved version of the M-4, which is what most end users seem to prefer. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Because the XM-8 still has an X in it.

The M-4 gas system, IIRC, is lifted directly from the XM-8.

Rather than lose a very large contract, they would prefer a somewhat smaller, but still profitable venture to the position of getting nothing.

TR

My limited understanding of the situation was that the XM_8 was all but a lay up for H&K. I guess I was wrong. I remember reading something to the effect that they wanted to salvage something from the OCIW boondogle and that the XM-8 was it.

TR,

Are the XM-8 ergonomics as uncomfortable as the UMPs?

Nobody has asked the shooter's opinions yet, IIRC. If they had, it wouldn't be fielded with anything less than a 16" barrel.

Military-Industrial complex, anyone?

There is a new H&K plant in Colombus, GA. Wonder why?

TR

HK
 

I noticed a while back that H&K had some info about their M4 program on their website. Bet then when all the hullaballoo started with the XM8 they took the HK M4 info off of the website.

You wont come up with too much nowadays if you do a search on the HK M4. I wonder what kind of comments would come from shooters if they had a weapon with the HK upper (with the gas piston system and SIR type rails) for the M4 chambered in the 6.8mm?

Re: HK
 

You won't find much on the H&K "M4" Program, Because Colt is Suing several Manufacturers Including H&K & Bushmaster for using the Name"M4"

Colt Lawsuit

Re: HK
 

Why would you want it in 6.8?

Do you have any experience with the round?

TR

6.8
 

no specific reason. I was thinking aloud aqbout what others might say about such a weapon. There is quite a bit of chatter lately RE: the 6.8mm.

I dont know enough about the ballistic minutae to say whether it would be superior to 5.56mm.