Strategists UP!
 

So, libs want to pull out of Iraq. Most of them I believe support staying in A-stan. Have they thought this through? What happens in A-stan if we runaway from Iraq?

A-stan gets a bunch more troops?

Which side?

All the insurgents from Iraq go to Afghanistan and it becomes the new Iraq.

I doubt those same Dems that want to pull out of Iraq would approve of sending those troops to Afghanistan. One of the reasons they want to pull the troops out of Iraq is to get the boys back home.


Basically, Iraq is THE warfront for terror right now. If we pull out of there it goes somewhere else. Afghanistan, Europe, United States... I don't know about you guys but as a future soldier I'd much rather fight and die for my country in Iraq than fight and die for my country in the U.S.

Well, I'll say one thing for you Sluggo, you got balls....:cool:

Let me preface by saying that I don't support pulling out of Iraq, but the argument (I would think) goes something like this:

1) Pulling out of Iraq allows us to focus our limited resources on a country where the population is more supportive of US/NATO troops on their soil...by extension, we can win definitively in Afghanistan (implicitly including capturing/killing of UBL and Zawahiri).
2) By pulling out of Iraq we rehabilitate our international image thereby renewing the US/European friendship, adding Arab support, and sapping the jihadist movement of its cause celebre.
3) Pulling out of Iraq also allows us to "reconstitute" the "broken" military.
4) Pulling out of Iraq will force the Iraqi government and populace to reconcile and the other countries in the region to assist in reconstruction, all out of their own self interests in avoiding a civil and/or regional war.

Bear in mind I think all of these are poorly reasoned and pulling out would be a disaster for everyone but Iran. However, if you guys want to work through the argument, I'm happy to play the RED CELL.

Afghanis are not Arabs.

1.) May be true but we've been looking for Osama (possibly dead...) in that region for 6 years now and not much luck there. I doubt you'd want that war in Afghanistan either.

2.) I don't believe pulling out of Iraq will suddenly patch up any "damages" done to our international relations. In my opinion, it will just give Iranians and other Arab countries something to point to and say "See, the Great Satan can be defeated!" and could be a catalyst to more aggressive policies by Middle Eastern countries.

3.) Not sure exactly what you mean by this, please expound.

4.) Fair point, but from what I have heard and read the Iraqi security forces still have a way to go before they are capable of providing the security to prevent the country from falling into total chaos.

I know. My bad, is should have typed that out better. The argument goes that a pullout from Iraq will boost support for the US among moderate Arabs, which will help us in Afghanistan and the GWOT in general.

This is specifically the Jack Murtha argument that says that the military, especially the Army, is overdeployed to the point that our ability to project power and/or respond to crises elsewhere in the world is compromised. Therefore, pulling out of Iraq would allow us to rebuild the military and preserve our long term military superiority.

How will moderate Arabs help us in A-stan?

Murthra
"I can't issue you that because if somebody comes in and asks for it, I won't have it to issue to them."

Murtha was an S-4?

TR

Strengthening moderate Arabs ostensiby cuts off (or at least cuts down) the flow of foreign fighters to Afghanistan and potentially adds Arab more militaries to the coalition roster. In the long term it supports political reform in the Arab world which addresses the long-term problem.

Afghanis are not Arabs.

I'm not understanding your counterpoint. I was talking about Arabs vis-a-vis the foreign fighters in and funding for jihad in Afghanistan.

(Again, just playing Red Cell here.)

History shows Countries that surrender don't fare to well. Even if they have excuses for surrendering.

We invade a country with a promise of a better life. During our stay there the infrastructure is obliterated. The going gets ruff. Then we pull out thinking it will rehabilitate our image:eek: Don't think other people don't see that the large majority of Americans are not even effected by this war yet. Think our image is negative now. The new image after abandoning Iraq will be that we are weak, easily defeated, never to be trusted again. There is no rehabilitating from that.
Our children's children will be living with the consequences. I don't see us swinging any big swords in the future if we leave Iraq without being pushed out first. It would be the biggest Roll Over and Piss on yourself move in history.