Can we talk about the Contras?
 

I'd be interested in anything anyone from 7th Group can share. Stories, observations, whatever. If there's nothing, that's OK too.

Wasn't this 20 years ago?

OK, I take it that the answer to my question is no. Perhaps after another 10 years? :)

I won't talk about what you asked, but if you want to discuss the Contras in general terms using open source, I'll play.

Can you recommend anything said open source worth reading on this issue ?

Just trying to help the economy by keeping my local Borders books afloat

No, I don't have any recommended reading on it. I ran with one some later on. Its not a very good subject really, very straight forward, no surprises, not very interesting personalities IMO.

Ok cool thanks

OK. First topic:

Contras and cocaine smuggling.

Open source:

Don't know anything about it.

OK, you pick the topic. :munchin

Women, beer, skydiving, sacamuelas new pistol

What does that document prove? Operations other than intel could be anything. (except intel).

Look, they already admitted what they did, were tried and sentenced and pardoned. What's to discuss?

The document proves nothing. I just thought it looked cool. LOL

LOL - because it has CIA written on it?

Anything signed by Ronald Reagan is cool. :)

how many people were tried or lost their job?

OK, how about this:

Were our efforts in Nicaragua successful? Were they worth the fallout?

What fallout? Reagan did two terms and his VP won.

Yes, it was worth it on a global strategic level. IMO

Like always - as many as it took to make it go away and protect the POTUS.

How many lost their jobs because of the Bay of Pigs?

Reagan was somewhat paralyzed and not as effective in his second term. Part of that was Iran-Contra fallout, but it primarily was due to the takeover of the Reagan Administration by the Bush people IMO.

That is a slightly different scenario. JFK wanted to maintain deniability for himself and the US for "diplomatic" reasons. Is it against policy to employ exiles in an uprising on foreign soil?

Yep, you're right, paralyzed

Reagan Paralyzed LOL

Well now Missy, that would depend on who's setting policy wouldn't it? Its not against my policy. LOL

I like this book: The Real Contra War: Highlander Peasant Resistance in Nicaragua By Timothy C. Brown

Hypocrisy is an enemy of policy, no matter who is setting it.

I'm sure policy is overated, but it does help to have one, to gain support among the people.

I don't begin to understand that.

I will tell you that IMO "Hypocrisy is an enemy of policy, no matter who is setting it. " is a noble statement, but far removed from reality in most cases.

Is it hypocritical to sign an Executive Order prohibiting assassination of foreign heads of state, then bomb the crap out of a country when you know full well that less than a dozen people are causing the problem?

I said somewhat. On domestic policy, he was a disappointment in term 2.

Ok Lib, in what sense?

You must not be talking to me. Unless you mean "libertarian" or "classical liberal," of course. :)

Whatever, what was the domestic policy failure?

I have to get some work done, but I did find this, which touches on the issue a little bit. It wasn't just in the second term, but I think it got a lot worse then.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...301.green.html

I'm back. You're right my statement about hypocrisy is crappy and vague. I just want to know how many people lost their jobs or had a trial regarding the contra/drugs.

domestic policy failure
 

The axe I am grinding is that IMO, zero-tolerance and the mandatory minimum sentencing brought in with 1986 Anti Drug Abuse Act were the wrong direction for domestic policy.

What we had was a domestic policy postured on morality and foreign policy postured on success by any means.

I'm speculating that is a pretty uncomfortable situation to be in, if you are one of the 500,000 citizens in the big house for drug offences, or if you have had property and asset seizure.

Now let's go back to your example:
That is an excellent, thought-provoking question. I knew there was a reason I haunt this place. Obviously 12333 can be a fly in the ointment. I have wondered how often it really boils down to a dozen people causing problems compared to a more systemic problem. Assassinations may appear cleaner but have more unpredictable consequences (eg the continuing fallout from the Gaitan assassination. this differs from foreign policy in that it was probably internal. nonetheless, as a civil war action may still not have acheived its objective).

Please clarify which situation you had in mind for your example of a dozen people.


edited to add: just to head this off and stay on topic, I know its been discussed around here before that the people in jail broke the law. it's "missy libertarian" to you. :munchin

Ask Daniel Ortega. My opinion? Yes and yes.

Re: domestic policy failure
 

Uncomfortable for WHO? Easy way around that, Just Say No. :munchin

Thanks Jimbo

Appreciate the recommendation

Re: Can we talk about the Contras?
 

Let me try to reset the topic. I am hopeful that one or more of the new members may be able to share some thoughts.

(I saw one starting, then changing his mind! :) )

[Edit: This is RL using wife's login. Oops]