My Experience: EOTech 552 -vs- Aimpoint Comp-M
 

I very recently sold my Aimpoint Comp-M & jumped on the EOTech bandwagon. Though I am very satisfied with the EOTech for CQB (Indoor), I do miss my Aimpoint.

Maybe it's just me, but I was at the range today zeroing my EOTech sight & I had a pretty hard time seeing the reticle in the bright sunlight even with the brightness setting turned all the way up. I never had this problem with my Aimpoint. The place where I shoot had covered bencherests, but the targets downrange were in the sunlight. Perhaps it would have helped if I had some black Shoot-N-C stickers on my targets, but a white paper target washed out the reticle pretty bad. I had to use my BUIS & C0-host back & forth to make sure that I was on target.

Anyone else have this problem with the EOTech and what did you do to remedy it?

I'm considering giving the EOTech to the guy that I sold my Aimpoint to & getting my Aimpoint back. Am I making a mistake?

Pictures of my Comp-M & 552.:

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/2/sbr5.jpg

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/2/sbrm4.jpg

I have experienced that washout as well.

That is one of the reasons I prefer the TA31F ACOG.

TR

Tool for the job
 

Understand your dilemma, but you have to look at application to answer the question. Guys who were brought up on iron begrudgingly went to aimpoints- and got faster, and so on with Holosights. But this was within a narrow environmental set that deals mainly with close-in fast shooting. If you're on your own dime I recommend you parallel what you HAVE to use at work to be as good as you can with that system. Otherwise have multiple options is the way to go, especially if magnification(ACOG) is a factor or fast, close-in work with percentage tgts(aimpoint/eotech)...make sure your good w/iron first.
one-zero
BT AR

I used the TA31F last weekend, damn fine piece of equipment!

(Will be selling the EOTEC soonest......)

TS

Do let me know . . .

I think you are going to have the same problem with the COMP-M. I have used both in some pretty bright conditions -- snow in a desert with bright sun -- and yes, they wash out if the target is also white. Both are equally time consuming trying to crank up the power for the dot.

I have found guys to hate the M-68 and love the EOTEC. Have found guys to hate both and love the irons. Have found guys to hate optics and love one of the other three.

Have rarely seen a set of irons break unless they are the Back Up Irons being issued on the M-4 carbine. Have seen more M-68s shit the bed than EOTECs for reasons unknown to man. They just stopped working. Have seen more EOTECs simply not zero or hold zero than M-68s. Most troops love the ACOG and it is pretty damn tough.

I personally don't care for the ACOG although I recently recommended that a brigade obtain quite a number of them. Simple fact is that the Army is going to them and so Joe needs to get used to them. It isn't that I don't like the ACOG. My eyes don't like the ACOG. I think it may have something to do with my personal likes concerning eye relief, clarity, and field of view but I will attest to their toughness and compact design.

Perhaps you need to determine which sight is the most comfortable for your eye to use and stick with that one. You will know which one you like because you will see it. Once you see what you like, you will probably be more likely to push it to its limits in terms of performance than something you don't like but may obtain anyway.

Knowing what you want the sight for is also a real good idea when considering the money involved in ACOGs and electronic sights.

Gene

AA - Everybody else has made some really good points. Like GE says - It really is a matter of personal preference. I have an EOTech and several Aimpoints. The EOTech is on my carbine and the Aimpoint is on the wife's. I stick with the EOTech because I like the reticle and it "passes" more light (sees better in low-light) than the Aimpoint IN MY OPINION. Because of it's design, the EOTech "feels" more open and my brain seems to integrate the visual information faster and more comfortably with it than with the Aimpoint. But - battery life is not as good as the Aimpoint and they do turn themselves off after 4-8 hours (which might not be convenient if you haven't been paying attention). The "washout" in bright light is going to happen with any of the illuminated sights. Fortunately I don't see myself hunting bad guys in the snow - though I have had problems with distinguishing tan targets against a dirt background (fortunately, I don't have to hunt tangos in the sandbox either). I will be getting an ACOG or two but it will probably not go on my short (CQB) range gun. The ACOGs with the fiber optic are the only ones I know of that compensate for varying light conditions without the operator having to fiddle with them - but shooters find themselves using tape over the FO to block it off when too much light is illuminating the reticle. Everything requires compromises, what to accept is up to you. Just some more grist for the mill. YMMV - Peregrino

Gentlemen, I appreciate all of the feedback. I have a better understanding of the limitations for each of the optics that I own & will use them accordingly. Time to save up for a TA31F.

I love mine.

Joining in the discussion, does anyone have experience using the J-point sights on top of the ACOG?

Viking, the ACOG w/ piggy back JPOINT sight is the set up that 11 out of 12 on my ODA runs with for main sights. We run the 8 mil dot version of the JPOINT. The only real issue is the JPOINT "storage cover" and making sure it doesn't get lost.

I love the set up, best of both worlds, my EOTECH (I've used an EOTECH 550 since 99') is now on my ROCK RIVER M-4 at home. It takes a little training on the sight transition, but it's easier and faster than trying to shoot close urban targets looking thru an ACOG.

JPOINT has given us a pretty good deal on unit orders of the sights and the mounts or if your buying one for yourself, they give service members a discount also. The winged mount you need for the issue ACOG is the following:

[ JPA-TANSN adapter for piggy back secondary sight on Trijicon ACOG NSN scopes ]

It replaces the stock rear sight ring on top of the ACOG and bolts into the lower strap which is part of the ACOG body.

Quite a few ODAs in the Company have gone to this set up. Guys that used it in OIF loved it for giving a shooter the option of a long range optic and a close range one without having to change out optics, plus the JPOINTS survivied the rotation in the same working manner in which they deployed .

The same battery lasted the entire rotation, so long as one doesn't lose the "storage cover" which saves battery life when not in use.

Realizing this is slightly OT I was recommended to tag this here, so I will. I am red/green colorblind, I'll start off with that. I've been looking over several optics for my AR15 over the last few months. The EOTech was good for pointing around inside an office (off an AR, of course). I also picked up a Trijicon Reflex, which had a blue tint to the lense and an amber dot, which always picked up well in my eyes, inside an office building again. Are there any issues that will arise with a red dot and different backgrounds vs a reflex sight? I like the EOTech, but if its going to do funny things to my eyes and I can't see it, doesn't do me any good does it? I've looked for reviews on the reflex and almost every where I turn its a case of "It washes out, its junk, etc". I want to find out if colorblindness is a consideration/issue in the dot-color and its effectivenss. If this is a question better posed elsewhere, please advise.

-Chris

Chris,

Trijicon also makes the amber reticle available on the TA11-A and most versions of the Compact ACOG. Are you looking at the Reflex because of price?

For night work, you might try a blue filter for your light. It will preserve your night vision just like red (if that's what you want, versus a blinding effect), but you won't have a problem losing the amber reticle against it with your color blindness. I.e., it won't look like amber on brown...

Hope that helps.

Thank you! Amber might be a go, but what of red dots, any colorblind horror stories?

The reason I'm going with a dot is because the range I shoot on doesn't go beyond 200m, and ACOGs are even more expensive up here than down south. Its a combination of practical use and economics. I'll be sure to do a range report and let you know once the decision is made.

I fully agree with rudelsg2. Its hard to beat a J-Point and an ACOG. You can use it in the house and shoot squirters too!

Looking back at this thread, I would like to add that I like the J-Point, but do not like having to bring my head up off the weapon so far to acquire the secondary optic.

I recently saw an SF soldier running an ACOG at training, he had his J-Point mounted on a forend rail forward of the ejection port at the 1:30 position or so. All he did was to cant the weapon over to the left and he was on the J-Point very quickly. He was so fast and accurate with it, that I am tempted to try such a set-up myself.

Anyone know who makes these mounts?

TR

TR, there is an angled rail mount in YHMs products;

http://yankeehill.bizland.com/store/...gle_Mounts.jpg

The type of setup you mentioned, is also popular on the IPSC rifle side.

Thanks.

It looked a lot smoother and faster to me than pulling up your head to peer over the ACOG.

TR

ACOG and JPoint
 

Reaper,

Sir, just wanted to let you know that I have been using an ACOG and an EOTech mounted on a 45 degree angle just in front of the ejection port for the last few months and it has worked very, very well. I had tried the JPoint on top of the ACOG at one time and found it to be difficult because of the need loose my cheek weld to see the sight. With the setup I have now rotating the weapon 45 degrees take a milisecond to change sights especially after a little practice.

Right now I am running a GG&G rail that enables you to mount a rail at 45 degrees, however YHM makes one that fits a standard rail system (as mentioned before) and I just found out that a place close to Bragg makes one similar to the YHM accessory. I haven't got a good price for you but I was looking at getting one for my personal weapon.

Phil

That looks a lot like an ACOG and EOTech in your pic.

Was that pic taken in December, BTW?

TR

It's a TA47-2 ACOG on a LaRue mount with the EOTech 552 up front. By the way I've had the EOTech for a year with no problems in direct sunlight. Although we had a problem with one where the rheostat broke. EOTech replaced it with no problems.



Phil

Just a few quick questions on the Jpoint. Is it durable and how long does the battery last? The reason I'm asking is because I am putting together an AR10 with a medium lenght 18" barrel and I have been considering mounting an MRT or NXS 2.5x10 24mm scope on it using ARMS rings and using a rail ring to mount a red dot in front of the turrets. I've looked at the specs on the Jpoint and also the ATN ultra light digital. Size and weight are similiar although the ATN is a hair larger. I am leaning toward the ATN because it allows for 3 different reticle types and it's about $75 cheaper. Any opinions on either or any other suggestions. Thanks... TonyY

I understand that the J Point is more durable than the TASCO it originated as.

For mounts for an ACOG, I have the ARMS #19 ACOG and the LaRue, I would consider comparing the two side by side.

For a QD mount for a 1" or 30mm tube optic, I currently have ARMS #22s, but have handled the LaRue SPR and think that the SPR mount may be a better platform for everything but precision long range guns, where a Badger Ordnance type ring would be superior.

Just my ,02, YMMV.

TR

Reaper, for another mounting option for a tube sight I use a mount that Mounting Solutions Plus came up with. It is a 9" Pic rail with up to 30 MOA milled in that uses two ARMs throw levers for attaching to an AR Rail. On this I use Badger rings and a MK4 M1 10x. I switch that off an on of an AR that I have that I normally use a CQT on with the ARMs quick release. It's a lot easier to see things at 800yds with a 10x scope than with a 3x. I've never had a zero problem switching from one to another. On my CQB gun I use an Eotech with a LaRue Eotech quick release on and I've never had any issues with that either.

Tony:

Not sure if you already bought what you want. I have one of the ATNs -- the model before the digital one -- actually it is a holographic type of system. It didn't hold up well in weather conditoins under about 50 degrees. Would start to fade out and then simply go blank in temps under 40. Changed batteries and the same thing. Back in temps over fifty and it would work fine.

All dot sights will lose their dot when aiming towards the sun to various degrees. The ATN is more sensitive to this than an M-68 or a C-More.

The ATN I have uses external adjustments for zero. I would think that would cause problems in bad weather conditions but it worked out fine. Also, the zero only changed about a minute when switching reticle patterns. That one surprised me greatly. I was expecting gross errors and they didn't happen.

I think that the elevation and windage system was poorly made. Sometimes you can feel them 'click' and other times you can't. Poor materials and machining. However, if you crank right or left windage, up or down, it goes in that direction. Don't depend on it being real precise in these terms.

I really appreciated the various reticle patterns on the system. They worked out very well for me. The various patterns were clearly defined. No double images or bleeding of the reticle pattern. Very practical for different uses.

The conditions that I normally deal with are cold (40's) with fog, rain, or sleet. Must be the worse possible conditions for any sort of optical sight. If they aren't made real, real well -- they won't hold up for a day.

My two cents worth.

Gene

Gene thanks for the feedback. I haven't purcahsed anything yet. I'm still researching it. The Docter or Ziess sights also look like they might be a good choice although the price goes up considerably.

TonyY..

Jpoint battery life
 

TonyY: In regards to the Jpoint's battery life - I have heard a range of 2-3 years from a few people who have had experience with them. I am not sure if that is with a large period of time in "hibernate" mode with the cap on or not.

I have seen some interesting mounts that replace the rear BUIS on a TA01NSN with the mount for a jpoint, but with protective wings on the side, not sure if it was mentioned yet or not.

The competition shooting canted sighting mount seems workable, and while I have yet to even add a railed forearm on my carbine, tilting my weapon left does seem shootable.

All interesting stuff to keep in mind when I start working with optics.

The two sight mount system is very usable especially if you get a little practice with it. I have been running an EOTech out front and yesterday the damn thing took a dump on me (it's lasted over a year). I have had no problems up until this point. I do want to try using a Docter Optic sight out front it is a lot smaller but I don't have much experience with it such as its range or durability. I read on their site that they make a military model, so we'll see what they have to offer at the Shot Show.

Recently, I got a J Point on loan, it retails for about 250 bucks but it is completely plastic. I don't believe it is the indestructable plastic or polymer at that. The retailer stated that the battery lasts for a long time as mentioned before but wasn't able to get any firm numbers. It just didn't seem like the optic was tough enough for the work we do.

Here is a pic of my set up.

Phil

Thanks for the feedback on the Jpoints. I try to avoid plastics and I always hated carrying batteries. I rather carry one of those hand crank generators for the 109. Well maybe not. I have one of those military Eotechs with those N batteries and they claim about 70 hours of life. Well I guess that's on the lowest night vision setting because in daylight I only seem to manage about 30 hours before it's time for new ones. But I don't use my CQB gun for any long periods, only when I'm in a class or something like that. At the time the shorter model appealed to me because it gave me more mounting options with BUIS.

Phil I'd be interested in some feedback if you come across something from Docter at the Shot Show.

Thanks. TonyY..

No problem Tony, hopefully I'll get some good info from the guys that are going.

Phil

Phil:

The batteries finally went or the sight? If a EOTech is crapping out after a year, the Army should consider renting them instead of buying them, :)

Here is a try at attaching a picture of my rifle with a C-More side mounted. Can't say as I particularly care for the C-More but until I find something that works better I will probably keep it in place. It is smaller than most dot sights and has taken the cold / wet conditions here surprisingly well.

Gene

Gene,

Nice set up! I haven't had the chance to use one of the CMore optics yet. It seems to have a lower profile than the EOTech. That was a concern of mine when I went to the two sight method. The Aimpoint is a great optic but I thought that it was too large to have hanging way out on the rail.

I went to the EOTech web page today and read the FAQ on the holosight. (When in doubt read the directions) There are a few things I want to try before I pronounce the sight as dead. The optic would turn off on recoil and on the web site they said that it could be the batteries. I just replaced the batteries the day before, however, the batteries could have been bad. It also mentioned to remove the batteries and wait a few minutes to let the electronics zero out. I was so busy the other day on the range that I was unable to properly evaluate the problem (cursing or threatening the optic doesn't count :eek: ) So, I'll give both those COA's a try tomorrow.

Phil

Phil I'm definitly curious about the Docter Military model. At Botach Tactical they sell the Docter red dot for $295 and they have a option for an upgrade to the military model + $400. This thing should be bullet proof. Also they claim 5 year battery life. Ok....??

I would just advise that you order from Botach at your own peril.

Some have had success with them, but most of those I know who have dealt with them (including myself) have not been happy.

TR

Reaper: I've dealt with them a few times most of the time I had no problems. The only real complaint I have is that if they are out of an item or no longer handling it, they tend to be slow in responding about it and usually you have to ask them what's going on.

I have had them lie to me about availability, charge my credit card before having the item in stock, fail to deliver (even after charging my card) and generally ignore my questions and requests for follow-up.

I finally had to deny the charges with my CCD bank to get a refund.

After the second time, I decided not to give them any more chances to screw me.

Your experience appears to be different. Caveat Emptor.

TR

Docter Optics...
 

Greetings all,

I recently picked up a Docter Optic and used it during a Carbine Operator class at Blackwater but I must warn you all, call and get verbal confirmation that they have the sight in stock.

I went through hoops trying to get one. Apparently the US Distro of the sight folded up it's tents about 3 months ago and they are near impossible to actually find. I was trying to get the $300 version and was only able to find 1 of the $600 version, so that's what I opted with.

j

Picked up a 512 this week, mounted and taking it to the range this weekend to sight in and work out. I'm pleased so far - obligatory pics *still learning* :lifter

Very intriguing idea. I have problems with my right eye, so I'm thinking about trying a setup like that. Does it make zeroing more of a challenge ?