High Speed Chases
 

Paden charged with misdemeanor vehicular homicide during pursuit
By Bill Wilson
GREAT BEND - Barton County Sheriff's Deputy David Paden was charged Wednesday with misdemeanor vehicular homicide in the Sept. 1, 2003, death of a Great Bend man during a police pursuit.

Sheriff Buck Causey and county officials took no immediate administrative action against Paden, an 11-year sheriff's deputy, after Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline filed the charges in Barton County District Court.

Paden will make his first appearance at 9 a.m. Feb. 27 in Barton County District Court. He's charged with unintentionally killing Brian K. Frenzl, 40, of Great Bend. Frenzl's motorcycle slammed into the front of Paden's patrol car as the deputy made a U-turn on U.S. 281.

Paden remains on road patrol, Causey said at 3 p.m. Wednesday.

"Obviously, he has a right to the legal process," the sheriff said. "It wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment or become involved while that legal process is being carried out."

But during an interview an hour later, Causey said he "had some decisions to make" on Paden's status with the department.

"That's not to say, you understand, that he'll still be on the road today, tonight or tomorrow," Causey said in the second call. "All I was saying was that as we speak, he's still on the road."

Paden also was charged Wednesday with operating a motor vehicle with unlawful tinting and making an unlawful U turn.

Vehicular homicide is a misdemeanor with a fine up to $2,500 and up to a year in jail. Paden faces up to a month in a jail and a $500 fine on the tinting charge and a $60 fine for the illegal U-turn.

"Oh, thank you, God," said Frenzl's girlfriend, Rita Budig, about the filings.

She declined further comment on the advice of her attorney.

Employment options

Causey's initial decision to leave Paden on the road is unusual, but not unprecedented, said several law enforcement officials.

"I think there would be a whole lot (of reason), without all the details of this case, to at least take the officer off the street until the situation is resolved," Hutchinson Police Chief Dick Heitschmidt said.

Locally, a similar arrest would "have several options with it," he said.

"At the very least, you could bring the officer inside and do a desk job and not suspend them with pay," he said. "It very easily could be a suspend-with-pay situation."

Darrell Wilson, the president of the Kansas Sheriff's Association, agreed but said similar incidents are handled differently by departments.

"It's the classic judgment call," Wilson said. "If you felt like his credibility and the credibility of your department wouldn't be hindered, you could leave him on the street. If you or the sheriff, or the chief or the city manager or whoever feel like it is, then you take him off."

Interim Barton County Administrator Richard Boeck-man said the county commission won't meet for two weeks, so he would "defer to the sheriff on what he decides to do with Officer Paden," he said.

Paden's patrol car

An investigation in September by several Kansas Highway Patrol troopers into Frenzl's death found that Paden's patrol car was illegally tinted and improperly retrofitted to accommodate the dog in his K-9 unit.

As a result, investigators noted, Paden would have been forced to lean out the driver's window to avoid obstructions and see Frenzl's motorcycle coming from behind.

Causey said Wednesday the car was illegally tinted at the factory, and then the infraction was compounded when it was further tinted for the dog.

"It was certainly darker than the law allows," Causey said.

Wilson said the car's condition "shouldn't have been a factor in the accident."

"It's hard to deny the deputy made a mistake," Wilson said. "And to say that because of the windows and the dog's cage he couldn't see out is malarkey. If a motorcycle's coming at you at 50 mph or whatever and it's 100 yards away and you can't see out the side window, it's a rear view mirror thing for the driver."

Paden's record

The Frenzl accident was the fourth chase-related wreck involving Paden in the last two years.

Adam Mayers, 16, died Jan. 5, 2002, after his truck slammed into a telephone pole during a high-speed chase initiated by Paden.

Brian Case was injured in a March 2002 motorcycle accident after a chase that included Paden.

And Jeffrey Wayne Chapman, 22, of Hutchinson, was treated and released Oct. 29, 2003, after his car struck a tree at 8th and Hubbard in Great Bend after a five-block chase initiated by Paden.

The investigation

Charges were filed following an investigation by the Kansas Bureau of Investigation and the Kansas Highway Patrol.

That investigation came after Barton County Attorney Rick Scheuffler referred the case to the AG in November, citing a possible conflict of interest.

Assistant Attorney General Stephen Maxwell will prosecute the case.

Reporter Bill Wilson can be reached at bwilson@hutchnews.com or by calling (620) 694-5700, ext. 314.

I have been seeing stories about chases more and more on the news, and many criticizing the policies. I have some thoughts, but my thinking has changed over the years. Of course, when I was the victim of persecution by the unjustice system, the policy was simple - You run you get chased until caught.

Anybody want to discuss this?

The LEOs I used to work for in my political consulting days told me that most PDs in this area have policies against unbridled high-speed chases because they don't want bystanders to get hurt. They use a tag-team system where cars drop on and off of the fleeing suspect and helos do most of the chasing, IIRC.

I personally dont think high-speed chases are worth it. I cant recall the numbers but I heard/read one time the majority of high speed chases are the result of traffic violations committed by drivers with suspended licenses.

I just dont see the capture of a driver with a suspended license being worth any bystanders life, but thats just me.

You stop chasing them and you can watch the stolen car and associated crime rate go through the roof.

I lived through that in Tampa, which went from like, #43 or so in GTA to #1 in three years.

They need pursuit policies, to chase intelligently, and to fire idiots like this. The media also needs to quit televising chases like they are some big game.

Killing a biker is viewed as less sensitive than hitting a stray dog. If you unjustifiably kill an innocent biker, you should go to jail.

OTOH, if you refuse to stop, you get what is coming to you.

TR

The LEOs are going to think I have it out for them aren't they?

You don't???

I figured this was some sort of compensation mechanism for your jealousy and admiration of your brother. Did he kick your A$$ to many times growing up or something? ;) LOL

I am with Reaper on this issue. You can't prevent them from chasing the criminals. Don't fall victim to the media's focus on rare events and then try to make policy as if that were the norm.


AS to this guy, if he broke the traffic laws that are enforced when a cop is chasing someone.... prosecute him for his negligence.

Those other three inflammatory incidences listed in that rag article have nothing to do with this instance. They are listed to taint the cop... none of those were his fault and should be brought up against him.

If you anyone feels otherwise, my guess is that you are the type person who might be influenced into trying to blame the gun verses the person who shoots it on gun control issues. All the Libs would have to do is keep running Colombine stories over and over. Individual responsiblity seems to be an idea that noone wants to address anymore. :(

TR:

Maybe I should clarify my position. I am not opposed to chases, I am however opposed to chases at high speed. If a person runs they get what comes to them if they crash.

I had the displeasure of cutting(extricating) a SC state trooper's body out of his cruiser about 3 years ago after skidding off the interstate and striking an oak tree with the passenger side of his Crown Vic at 120mph while chasing a guy with a broken tail light. The vehicle struck the tree about 5 feet from the ground and was suspended there until I removed it. I will see if I can find the pics of his cruiser tomorrow at the office. I have never seen a car wrap around a tree like that.

About 8 years ago another Trooper struck and killed a 9 year old girl and her mother while chasing someone who stole gas from a convenience store. The trooper's estimated speed at impact was 85 mph. This was through a small mill town. The trooper was aquitted of vehicular manslaughter

All that to say there really should be a more defined policy for chases rather than the chase until caught, or someone dies method.

For me the issue is not individual responsibility but a lack of reasonable protocol for chases. I dont have a magic number so dont ask me to provide one.

And no I dont think, "its the gun's fault" mentality so dont go there. Dont confuse the issues.

Surgcric-
You name two horrific instances. In one, a trooper was traveling at to high a rate of speed for his circumstances and was killed. It was his fault. Tragic.... a waste... but still his fault.

The other is tragic but again the trooper was following at a higher rate of speed than was considered safe. I am in favor of protecting those that serve from frivolous lawsuits... immunity for any action I am not.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the cops should chase at the maximum speed possible for their vehicle in all instances. It shoudl be left to the judgement of TRAINED officers as to its feasibility. Maybe we have a training problem that needs to be addressed. Also, guidelines should be set and reevavluated constantly using advances in technology and equipment available to apprehend these dirt bags.

Anybody have any numbers?

Its not a lack of training, its a lack of protocol. You cannot expect the LEO directly involved in the chase to make that judgement. In most instances he will continue out of pure adrenaline.

Its someone sitting down and saying, "this is too fast for this area." I also think the shift officer, zone fficer, etc should have the authority to call it off. Thats all.

I will call SLED tomorrow and get some if you would like.

I agree with you James. The guidelines should be developed before hand. The point about shift supervisors,etc is a good one. In my little bros dept., that is exactly who has to authorize ANY high speed chase.

But the policy of no chasing or making public what the maximum speeds that are allowed will only increase the probability for fleeing to occur.


NDD-
Statistics only prove what you want them too. You know that. You will never get a true picture of the total number of chases, etc because a lot of the successful ones go unreported. You will generally only see statistics kept on either the most severe/highest speed ones that make the news or the ones in which accidents take place.

One point about not expecting officers to remain controlled and professional. WE expect 18-22 year old marines to enter areas under fire from the enemy yet still retain enough composure to not indescriminantly kill every civilian and bad guy in site. That is because of their training level... We should give cops the same level of training for auto chases.

I don't think it is that difficult a thing to teach. FWIW, I would think a soldier being shot at is experiencing a lot more of an adrenaline rush than a cop who wants to drive fast.

Thoughts?

Here is the result of one...

2001 Nissan 300zx got sandwiched between two 18-wheelers occupants are still in the vehicle.

Crip,
I agree with your post. But training is always an issue. Driving, like shooting, is a perishable skill. I'm talking about DRIVING, not driving. I am a trainer at times and I run 3-4 driving courses a year. I have to schedule two days up front to get me and the AIs in shape to teach the course, and we bring in somebody current to check us out because we don't do it every day. I go as a student. And that's for the basic course.

There's no way that the administrators of these Departments, especially the smaller ones, are sending their guys to Scotti or that two or three times a year. And I would imagine when they do train, it is because it is forced on them and they get the lowest bidder.

Most of these things, including the militarization, I blame on administrators. I pulled that article off of a primarily LEO board. What I thought was interesting was the first comment was "That's SHIT!" Not comments such as those we have here.

I'm all for catching bad guys. But I'm like you "At what price?" I would guess a lot of times, a valid assumption would be "Well yeah, I was going to pull him over for that tailight, but he ran. How do I know he didn't just kill somebody?"

I would guess most Departments don't have access to helos. So they chase or let them go. I don't know, I just thought it was worth discussing. It would be interesting to see the stats.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sacamuelas
[B]
Just the opposite. We expect them to destroy ever bad guy they see and try to keep the collateral to a minimum.

I don't think it is that difficult a thing to teach. FWIW, I would think a soldier being shot at is experiencing a lot more of an adrenaline rush than a cop who wants to drive fast.

Its actually pretty close to the same if you're going fast enough and you can't tell if the shooting is directed specifically at you. At least to me.

See the arm hanging out, roger that part.

Good trick though, since Nissan 300ZX production ended in 1996.

TR

I think you should ride in a cruiser at 120mph while weaving in and out of traffic and record where your mind is at the time.

I would also believe you cant compare target discrimination and to high speed pursuit. I am sure if you ask the officers who have engaged in chases with poor outcomes they would tell they would have never guessed the outcome.

Yeah.. you got him TR. Caught that liberal media propagandist in his web of lies. Altering photos...shame shame ;) LOL Just kidding James.


NDD- There is a big difference in your driving example and cop chases... in the cop example they are the ones doing the chasing and there is nobody shooting at them or trying to hit them with a RPG!! LOL Not an apples to apples comparison in adrenaline rush I wouldn't think.

Sorry about that. The pic was stolen from the EMS computer here and the folder was titled 2001 300zx high speed chase.

Now that I have looked though all of the pics of it is not even of a 300zx.

For some reason you guys seem to think that these officers have no choice or control in how fast their vehicle are traveling. Its.. "well you put yourself in the car at 120 mph in a schoolzone and see how much adrenaline is running through you" type arguments that keep being proposed. Noone is saying that they must catch EVERY vehicle that runs. IF they feel that the dirtbag can be followed safely due to the circumstances... then follow him. If you are doing 120 in a nursery parking lot- stop.

That was not the issue... The cop should slow down if warranted because nobody is forcing him to chase. If you can't make the case in your head that doing 120mph when around any traffic or on a two lane road is dangerous, then you are a friggin idiot and should not be a cop. I am not saying they should be able to do whatever they can to push their cars to the limit just to catch someone.
Does anyone feel that the cop is not the one who is in control of his vehicle at all times during a chase??? PLease explain this idea if you do. It baffles me to think that we should strip the responsiblity away from all cops because a few are friggin idiots.

300's dont have 4 doors

You misunderstand. I have both driven VERY fast and been in the area of shooting going on very near. The rush I got in both cases was similar. I have also had that rush jumping at night and having a problem with the kit.

However, when you KNOW they are shooting at you, as an individual, there is no comparison. I've had that happen as well and I don't like it at all.

Adernaline it is the same no matter if you are being shot at, driving in a high speed chase, or in a knock down drag out fight. Additionally I know you have all heard of the OODA loop?

Observe
Orientate
Decide
Act

Its the process your brain goes through when the P factor goes up.

You guys have experienced it even if you have never heard of it. It is a physiological process. --So I've read.

We all know what happens when adernaline dumps into your viens, your blood pressure goes up, you get tunnel vision, and your fine motor skills go to crap, all while your trying to decide on what to do next.

As you guys know you can train through this. The first time you did a dynamic entry in a training envirnoment you may have experienced the OODA loop and an adernaline rush. The more dynamic entries you did and the more combat training you got the more confident you became in this skill, and you learned to work through the OODA loop and the adernaline dump. So now you can breach a door throw a flashbang, kill all the bad guys inside, save the hostages, all while sippin a beer. You can do this because of the thousands of hours you spent on the range and in training.

Now let me tell you how much training an average cop gets in prusuit driving its about 40 hours in the basic academy, and thats it for a 20 + year career.

See a problem?

Also NDD I think one of the reasons why you are seeing so much on prusuits now days is b/c the media has turned them into a LIVE ACTION, LATE BREAKING, blah, blah, blah....basically cat chase and everyone wants to see if the guy gets caught. Additionally alot of agencies are adopting a "NO PRUSUIT" policy so unless you KNOW that the guy you are chasing is wanted for a serious or violent crime they get a free pass. B/C of this like TR said the bad guys learn real quick that they can run and you won't chase.

I agree you should risk the lives of every individual out there to chase down the broken tail light w/ a suspended DL. But you also can't let every Tom, Dick, and Harry who decides to run go.

Its a tough call on who do you chase and who do you not. Especially tough call when all of a sudden the guy takes of on you. You mind automatically thinks sh*t this guy just killed someone, I CANNOT let him get away.

Wonder what else is wrong with it?

I have exceeded 120 by a good bit when I was younger and dumber, broke 125 on a bike, and been shot at a few times.

As Sir Winston Churchill said, "Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result."

While looking the exact quote up, I also found these, which are irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but are good words, nonetheless.

It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations"
- Winston Churchill: My Early Life (1930) ch. 9.

"Never in the face of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few."
- Winston Churchill

"In Critical and baffling situations, it is always best to return to first principle and simple action"
- Sir Winston S. Churchill

“it so often happens that, when men are convinced that they have to die, a desire to bear themselves well and to leave life’s stage with dignity conquers all other sensations.�
- Sir Winston S. Churchill

"I have never accepted what many people have kindly said, namely that I inspired the Nation. It was the nation and the race dwelling around the globe that had the lion heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar"
- Sir Winston Churchill, Speech Nov. 1954.

"There is at least one thing worse than fighting with allies – And that is to fight without them"
- Sir Winston S. Churchill

"The power of an air force is terrific when there is nothing to oppose it."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy is the best form of the worst type of government"
- Winston Churchill

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. "
- Winston Churchill

"Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality that guarantees all others"
- Sir Winston S. Churchill

"A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him."
- Sir Winston S. Churchill, 1952. (The Observer)

No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account.
- Winston Churchill

"Arm yourselves, and be ye men of valor, and be in readiness for the conflict; for it is better for us to perish in battle than to look upon the outrage of our nation and our altar."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill

Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
-Winston Churchill

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill

"You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terrors. Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill

"To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!...Hitler's fate was sealed. Mussolini's fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill (after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor)

"Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonor. They chose dishonor."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill

"Sure I am this day we are masters of our fate, that the task which has been set before us is not above our strength; that its pangs and toils are not beyond our endurance. As long as we have faith in our own cause and an unconquerable will to win, victory will not be denied us."
- Winston Churchill

"We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France. We shall fight on the seas and oceans. We shall fight with growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender."
- Winston Churchill

"Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter."
- Winston Churchill

I never worry about action, but only inaction.
- Winston Churchill

I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me.
- Winston Churchill

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
- Winston Churchill

Socialism is like a dream. Sooner or later you wake up to reality.
- Winston Churchill

Socialists think profits are a vice; I consider losses the real vice.
- Winston Churchill

Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
- Winston Churchill

This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill

You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves.
-Winston Churchill

HIJACKED :D

Funny how we were discussing this very topic today in class. We are currently working on the subject of MVL (Motor Vehicle Law) and the subject of high speed chases came up.
Okay, I could not read through all the thread here, but let me say this: most departments (not all) have what we call pursuit or apprehension policies. Depending on the agencies policy determines whether you will chase or not. Also, above certain speeds and through certain areas, the ranking officer MAY CALL OFF THE CHASE AT ANY TIME. The officer INITIATING the pursuit has to use some some discression (sp?) as to whether it is safe for him or her to continue.
Here's my take on it: depending on the violation, if you have a good description of the vehicle, occupants and a tag number, why chase the dude?? He wants you to chase him, most of those out in LA are done on purpose, with the offenders knowing that they will be on t.v.
This is why helicopters are great tools. We can also use cameras (traffic cams) to aid us. We will get the guy eventually. So maybe he gets away today, we will get him sooner or later, count on it.;)

You have got to be kidding!
 

There is a BIG difference between driving fast and being shot at!

When I'm at work. I drive fast ALL of time because speed is security. The adrenaline is barely noticable.

Now being shot at...rocketed or mortored! The adrenaline rush went thru the roof!:p

Reading about it is one thing...well, you know the rest.

Re: You have got to be kidding!
 

My mistake Guy, I miss wrote last night and was unclear in my orginial post.

What I should have said is that your body reacts the same way to adernaline. Now based on what is happening at the time depends on how much adernaline you get.

I completely agree chasing someone and being shot are to totally different situations. BUT the bodies reaction to the adernaline dump is the same.

I'm like you I drive fast all the time while at work, I also experience little to no adernaline. However if you or I were trying to conduct a normal traffic stop then all of a sudden someone runs (either in the car or on foot) you get an adernaline dump.

Is it the same amount as being shot at honestly I don't know I have only been shot at twice, and the incidents happened so quickly that all I could do was go to cover, and the threat left the sceen. So the incidents were over very quickly. I'm sure you have alot more experience when it comes to being shot at, so you know a hell of alot more about what your body does under these circumstances. From my limited experiences my body reacted the same way. Blood pressure went up, I started to get tunnel vision, and I had little to-no-finite motor skills.

Last night I was trying to point out the fact that in a high stressful situation your body re-acts a certain way, unless you have trained yourself otherwise.

HSLD door kickin individuals have trained themselves to act a certain way, because all of the time and training they have put into there chosen profession.

Your average Cop does not have the same amount of time and training vested (in pursuit driving in this case) to properly train through your bodies natural reaction to a stressful situation.

Well, here's my opinion, as if anybody cares.

1. We need to get the bad guys or there will be a crime wave like Reaper said.

2. Need to use more technology. The chases I see are a lot of times stolen cars. GPS, etc., should cause such a drop in insurance rates as to pay for the service.

3. More training for officers. Back when I was younger, the Texas Hiwghway Patrol had specialists. Trans Ams and Cobras, specially trained officers. Kind of Road Warrior, but it worked.

4. Make a law, you don't pull over for an emergency vehicle - 2 years no license. 2nd - 5 years, 3rd - take the bus for life.

5. You run from the law, even if you didn't do anything else, 5 years minimum mandatory.

6. Officer Billy Bob Jumpback from Podunk PD don't get to chase anybody. Only those Depts., with the training and resources to do so. The Coperators.

7. That's where I would start.

8. I agree with no more tv coverage also.

As for the case above, somebody needs to look very hard at the whole case. There's a pattern of behavior there. May be the officer, but also may be the administration or the environment or even the perpetrators. But there is a problem there.

NDD:

I think you are being too harsh on some of your opinions. Everyone was young once and did stupid shit...should that constitute a punishment so severe that one cannot recover from?

Joe:
Comparing the LE organization to SpecOps is like comparing apples to oranges.

Someone once said:

Dude...in a calm environment you SUCK! Put your ass in a stressful situation you thrive!:D

Don't mess with Texas! LOL

Yes, thank you. I wanted to name one of my kids after him, but my wife would not allow it. LOL

I will definately toast to that one. Something needs to be done to address this problem.

I say, if they dont pull to the RIGHT and STOP I get to push them from the roadway with the big front porch of a bumper I have on this truck. That another discussion though

Edited: I cant spell.

Agreed, it was the comparison that popped into my head at the time.

I was mearly trying to show the different levels of vested time, money, and training into a certain skill. As NDD said earlier driving like shooting is a perishable skill, if you do not practice often you will lose the skill. The majority of LE organizations in my area do not provide any continuation training on prusuit DRIVING once you get out of the academy.

Whoever said there is no relation between SOF soldiers and cops is absolutely right. Cops, especially big city cops have nowhere near the training or assets that are lavished upon SOF.
I think if one looks at the stats, more cops are killed each year than SF. Sometimes, not often, the surviving cops get to kill the doers. There are no air strikes, no artillery, no CIA to help the cops. TV does not find the war on crime in the ghetto sexy. There are very few cops getting consulting fees on MSNBC. Right now, if you go into Borders Books, no one is rushing to buy the newest action novel by a former cop. If it is not lost, we are losing the war on crime in America and our best and brightest find it more rewarding to go off to foreign countries and fight for America. I am not making a judgement, merely stating what seems to be the facts I see.
Cops do get to go home at night, they are sued, often on a monthly basis and, almost every decision they make is second guessed by well educated lawyers, reporters and judges. Many end up in prison. Cops and dentists(go figure) suicide rates is among the highest among any group in the country. Most are high school graduates. They are never called for good news, most Americans resent them to one degree or another
SOF certainly seems like a much better and in many ways an easier deal.
Every day in the ghetto if you are doing your job you fight somebody. Getting shot at is a regular experience, it might only be a .22 or a .32 but, it'll sting a mite if it hits you.

I'd like to vote for option 5 in NDD's Manifesto.

5 yr mandatory would be a hell of a deterent. You would have some touchy cases at first, guy running from a speeding ticket, etc etc. ACLU will whine. But, after those first arrests, and assuming the judges don't overturn them, it will sink it real quick.

I want NDD to be the mayor of the city where I work at!!!! I like those rules.

Pursuit policies differ from dept to dept. Ours require that a supervisor acknowledge and monitor the radio. Before we got spike strips, every cop would try to get in on the pursuit. Now it's a race to spike the car.

I think the longest pursuit I was in was 45 minutes. The reason for the inital pursuit? The car was just used in a robbery. It was all over the city and ended up in the adjacent city. By the time it was over, a cop and the suspect got shot. After getting shot, the suspect ran 100 yrds and hid under a trailor. Guess who got to him first? :D