Gun Safe Recommendations
 

I need a good Gun Safe.

Here are my requirements:
A) Must be able to hold the following:
1. approximately 15 Rifles (some with Optics)
2. 10+ pistols
3. Ammo 2-3k in rounds of various calibres
B) Must be fire resistant
C) I'm open to lock suggestions and types i.e. tumbulars or digital key pad


Thanks for any help.

It sounds like quite a big one. Perhaps you could convert a room to a walk in safe? Would be expensive, but damn damn cool :D

I have a Canon, but Liberty, Browning, Fort Knox are all good. I went with the tumbler over key pad (I fear technology). I was told to buy a safe twice as big as I thought I needed, you'll be amazed at all the other items you'll decide are "safe worthy" once you have one. You'll never complain about having too much room in your safe.

I recommend Liberty Safes.

http://www.libertysafe.com

Bump
 

I wanted to check and inquire whether anybody had any experiences, good or bad, with their safes. I am looking at a Liberty brand, but am wanting to make sure that I spend my money wisely.

Also, it seems that the companies have a couple of different types of dehumidifiers. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

I have a Liberty - it's ok for a RSC. But I think there are better options out there.

Take a look at Sturdy Safes. They use a much thicker steel than Liberty. Ft Knox put out a video of some guys breaking into a Liberty in less than a minute with a pry-bar and some basic thieves tools.

If you want real security, take a look at Brown safes. I could care less how the safe looks (I'm not going to have it in the living room). Their commercial safes are top notch and I think a good value.

As far as dehumidifiers - I use cat box crystals and fill several socks per safe. My safes are in the garage - a horrible place for safes and humidity - and I have not had problems with rust. The cat crystals are the same as the desiccant packs - just a heck of a lot cheaper.

Second on Sturdy.

AWESOME safes....watch all their videos, read their literature, make an informed decision. Their safes are terrific.

I have one of these and am happy with it, although I've not had anyone try to break into it or burn my house down . . .

http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/index.htm

I've got one of these safes.


http://roguesafe.com/gallery.html

I met tham at a local sportsmans show a few years ago and was impressed. Once you look at one of these and compare it to a liberty-browning-ect., it's like making tha comparison to a harbor freight style safe.

Had the safe they were breaking into been installed properly in the right location in a home, they wouldn't have been able to pry it open at anywhere near the speed in the video. Even if it had only been bolted to the floor, they would not have had the ease of entry they had by knocking it over on it's back. Installed in a position (recessed) that takes away the angles of leverage they used and they would not have been successful with the tools they had.

I've got this one and have been verry happy with it. I run both an electric tube style dehumidifer and a remington compact dehumidifier.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=en-US&topnav=

Zanotti
 

I bought a Zanotti a few years back. Really like the "portable" aspect. Also handy for creating a low signature when moving the thing around. I also have a Browning/ProSteel but the Zanotti is IMHO a better product.

http://www.zanottiarmor.com/

MVP

I am just about ready to pull the trigger on a Liberty Fatboy safe after doing my research. Let me say that buying a car or a house is far easier than buying a gun safe IMO. There is so much smoke and mirror marketing among the many safe manufacturers out there that it is hard to do a apple to apple comparison. Liberty and others have videos of their safes resisting being pried open, dropped from 100 feet, hit by cars, burned, etc while the competitor safe fails. The problem I have surmised is that sometimes those videos aren't comparing apples to apples. A top shelf safe is going to do far better against an entry level safe no matter who makes it.



Having just had a family home burn to the ground during the fires in Texas, I can say that a 60 minute fireproof safe should be a minimum requirement but that is my opinion. However, this is another area where safe voodoo is used by manufacturers. Each downplays the fire proof materials used by their competitor and their product is always better. Number of guns it holds is also a voodoo area, instead I rely on cubic feet numbers and the interior layouts available to help get an idea of what will fit my bill.


I have looked into AMSEC, Cannon, Liberty, Ft. Knox, Sturdy, etc and all make quality products but when it comes to comparing them side by side it ends up being hard to do and is more of an apples to oranges type comparison when you look at features/ratings and or price.

A few things I do recommend is to buy more safe than you think you will need. Compare safes based on your requirements and or budget. The later may be hard to do as some safes are more expensive than others and that price can also put them in another quality tier level. If you are driven by budget, you may have to modify some of your requirements/wants on your list and only compare safes that fall within your price and or size range. This is where you will have to print out specs of each and compare, some of it is small stuff, some of it is deciding factor stuff depending on your needs/wants in a safe.

After all was said and done and I spent way too much time on the computer, I have surmised that the Liberty Fatboy is what fits my requirements and is within my comfortable price range. The Cabella's line of safes are made by Liberty but they don't carry the Fatboy model or have one similar in features/price so I opted to go to Liberty direct.

I think most people get caught up and go a bit overboard with the specs on safes in some cases. I don't foresee having to have a safe that can hold off a DA style attack or even one where they come with full size pry bars but rather a general home theft break in and or a fire. I don't have any serious collectable firearms or a huge collection, just a lot of typical weapons an SF guy tends to have. If you have a serious collection that is valuable then by all means, your needs are different and that puts one into a top tier quality level of safe, none of which are cheap and or small.

One resource I found that may be of help in determining your selection of a safe can be found here:
Gun safe buyers guide

I have had a Fort Knox (30x24x66) for 20yrs. 1/2 long guns & 1/2 shelves. It is not the fire rated level but the door is 3/8, 6 lock pins, & mechanical tumblers.

Not big enough. Currently have stuff and bulk ammo hid.. I plan to build a safe room in the next house. A nice little 8x10 room, with work bench... Hopefully a spot in the cellar where I can use 4inch block filled with Portland..

If you think about the ammo and if you load, a safe will not get it..



My $00.0002

I have had AMSEC and Liberty, and hung out in a local gun store that carried most brands. Done a little research on barrier penetration as well.

While you get what you pay for, at some point, you are paying for flash.

The AMSEC is a budget solution, while will keep the neighborhood kids from getting into it with a screwdriver. The Liberty higher ends are very nice and well made, but a locksmith or a team with saws, torches, drills, jacks, comealongs, etc. will be in most portable safes in short order. With little training, I could empty most home safes with tools I could carry in alone in less than five minutes.

Hell, the right team can crack a bank vault.

You should be looking for layered security. Good locks, an alarm system, video surveillance, a dog, hiding/disguising the safe, an armed family member, all make up part of the defensive system. Delay, delay, delay. You need to figure out what you are protecting, the threat you are protecting it from, and how long you need to stall them before a response arrives.

Unless you are specifically a target, you just need to be harder than your neighbors. Most criminals will skip the hard target for the easy one next door.

Fire protection is a bonus, and will help with some attacks. Thicker is better, but it takes up interior volume. Most is gypsum board.

I have used dehumidifier rods, but most safes will be fine with a small incandescent lamp left on inside (and not touching anything). I never seem to dry out dessicant packs quickly enough. Best solution is to keep your weapons cleaned and oiled.

Agree on the cubic footage for determining capacity. I suspect that once you have outgrown two safes, you need to consider building a vault. Four inch block, filled or not, is less than ten minutes of sledgehammer work to walk through. And anything under #5 rebar can be cut with manual bolt cutters.

HTH.

TR

You lock up your ammo?

Yep.

I have too much to lock it all up. :D

Or perhaps my safe is too small . . . :(

It's never going to be big enough. I went from a Liberty Centurion (wife uses it for her stuff now) to a Griffin (slightly larger than a FatBoy Jr.) and wish I had gotten the Liberty FatBoy (not sure how I would have gotten it in the house though). Check out Griffin Enterprises video on this website: (http://www.villagepawnandgunshop.com/gunsafes.html). It is educational and worth the time to watch.

In our previous house I had a 16 l x 8 w x 10 h "war room" with a 1" thick steel door in the basement with a subterranean outer wall. It was incredible and I hated to give it up. But we moved, and now my safe is in a more accessible area.

I do worry about security but have everything alarmed.

Question - How do Heritage safes compare with those you guys have mentioned - like Sturdy? They quote a 2 hr fire resistance, but I'm not sure to what temperature.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/2032-OS-...t/EN/index.htm

Check this out...... great for storage.

coffee table
 

TS,

That makes a great coffee table for a single guy. When you have a woman over you can impress her by covering it will a nice cloth, perhaps a ponch liner.:D

If you paint it and put a cushion on top,, I think my wife might go for it..

And the price is right.. :lifter


http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...&storeId=10051

TR spot on in above post with the layered security concept as he describes. I have a multi-layer alarm system at my place, with at least one of which is completely wireless (cutting phone or cable does no good). (I won't be specific in a public forum as to the exact details of my system and sensors).

If your alarm system isn't monitored, and you would be surprised at how many people discontinue their monitoring after the contract runs out, then that means your alarm system is significantly degraded. Having a siren is better than nothing but.....It also means that if you claim a discount on your insurance for having an alarm, then you have a problem since they all require that it be monitored by an established alarm monitoring company.

Put another way, high security facilities used by the DOD and sensitive industries are monitored alarm systems and obviously some use armed guards. Why shouldn't your own system be?

Obviously with modern alarm systems you can also keep tabs with via your mobile phone monitoring features which just adds another helpful layer.

Camera's are another important layer. Again, all high-security facilities use them...for a reason. Even the local store has 'em. Cameras are a significant research project in itself but the main thing to remember is you want off-site data storage as well. There are some very secure online remote storage companies. I like Spider Oak as everything is encrypted and they claim they could not turn over data even if ordered because they have no way to access it FWIW. Regardless, it's stored offsite of your place.

At your doors you want camera's that have microphones. There are a host of reasons for this, some obvious.

Another thing with cameras - depending on your exterior lighting, you may or may not need an IR source. If you do need IR lighting and motion activated camera you may want to consider having a camera, and then have the IR source separate. Many camera's come with IR source built in. The problem is, especially in summer months, depending on where you live, large insects flying at night can be attracted to a strong IR source and then cause the camera to keep false alarming which can eat up data storage space & even more annoying if hooked to interior audible alert & mobile phone alert. So, if you place a separate IR illuminating away from your camera but still illuminating the area that you want monitored. The downside to this is more rigging and installation time and expense. Not all camera's have this problem but some do and it's something to be aware of and consider.

Nothing is fool proof unless you are armed-guarding your stuff 24/7 but we are talking LAYERS. If thieves see camera's, alarm signs, fences, dogs, gates, lots of good exterior lighting, multi-layers...then it increases the chances they will continue on and look for a less risky target.


The new generation digital locks are good. If you want speed of access, then that is your option.

I see Ft. Knox safes mentioned in comparison with Liberty, AMSEC and others. Ft. Knox safes are excellent but they are far higher in price as well. The value of what you are trying to protect is a factor. Higher quality always costs more. There is really no way around it. We all try to get the most quality for the lowest price. Quality doesn't always equal flash so obviously I would take the safe without the mirrors and interior lighting in exchange for thicker steel and larger anti-drill plate areas.

For 15 long guns, some with optics, I think you need a safe that claims it will store 40 guns at a minimum. Always more than double the size you think you need.

Considering just one example that a case of 5.56 costs around +/-$250.00 bucks, never mind the price of .50 cal.....and .45 ain't cheap as we all know, a few cases of that would be a significant loss.

But then it's the same old vicious circle, the more bulk you lock up, the more safes you need. So then you weigh the risk of more money spent on safe, vs the amount of risk of theft, vs "I would rather spend that money on more guns and ammo":D As others have said, eventually a vault room is the way to go unless you are going to be at your house the majority of the time then the expense might not be worth it if a muli-layer security is decent.

Just get a cheap Browning and two mean dogs.

I have a Liberty, Lincoln model IIRC. I also have a monitored alarm system. I keep the ammo in a separate locker... There are also 2 West Highland White Terriers that think they are Rottweilers...

Spot on. One thing to keep in mind is that if you have access to the dealer/install code(s), you can switch to a cheaper monitoring service once you contract runs out. Currently, I pay around $9 per month. Rumor has it that Verizon will be adding central station monitoring to their new home automation offering.

I use internet based monitoring, so I rely on my FiOS line, ONT is in the house and the line is armored 18 feet up, with a NC loop from the alarm system in the pipe, start cutting and the alarm goes off :D

Modern wireless/hybrid systems are getting easier to install yourself i.e. double-sided tape and some basic programming, additionally, if you have existing wiring with an older or non-functional panel, you can swap out the panel(and sensors if need be).

Cameras have definitely come down in price over the years, but good cameras can get pricey. Case in point: One thing to consider with IR is the lens. Modern cameras employ lenses capable of picking up IR at night, the problem is that most cheap cameras use fixed lenses, which means that the daytime picture can get washed out by natural IR sources, i.e. the sun. When looking for a camera with IR, consider one with what is called an IR cut filter, this filter mechanically changes the lens when switching from day/night operation. Cameras with mechanical IR cut filters tend to be a bit pricey than their fixed lens brethren.

There are many other things to consider as well, CMOS vs. CCD, effective pixels, and TV lines. There is a lot material available for DIY camera installations, so make sure you read and heed before you buy.


My .02

Nice! Good camera info BTW.

Thanks! I am still looking into wireless backup, but the module and service are very expensive, maybe an eBay GSM auto-dialer with a pre-paid SIM card might do the trick.

My cameras came in handy within weeks of installing them. About a year ago, some guy was going around checking for open car doors and grabbing whatever was inside(some friends of mine lost Blackberries, GPS, laptop etc). I was working on the computer one night, with the camera software open in the corner of the screen when I notice this guy walking up the driveway, with his hands over his face(he saw the cameras), he walks up to the car and tries the door. I hit the panic button on the remote, which scared him off, but not before I got a decent shot of his face. NYPD eventually got him a few weeks later...

Getting back on topic :o

NYC requires spousal unit approval for firearm permits, notarized and all. After a lengthy discussion(some recent deadly home invasions in my area were a big factor) my wife OK'd the permit application as long as I go with something that has a biometric lock, she is very concerned about the kids getting to the key or combination. Experience and recommendations are much appreciated :D

Now I have heard everything...............

Affidavit of Cohabitant, page 11: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...pplication.pdf


:mad:

How long will it take a home invader to breach and enter your dwelling?

If you can't access the weapon and make it ready to fire quicker than that, maybe you should reconsider owning one for protection.

TR

Depends on where they enter, shortest time would be about 10-12 seconds until they are at the foot of the stairs. In my experience, biometric locks are usually pretty fast, and with the planned safe location about 8 short steps from my bed, I think I would have enough time from the start of the alarm siren to make the weapon ready to fire. Exterior motion sensors combined with motion processing from the cameras could give me a much earlier warning(my weakest point is furthest from the street).

ETA: QP TR, I followed up with a PM, when you have a moment.

The ex didn't like my S&W 59 in the house. Since the S&W doesn't smile at strangers or go off for no discernible reason........ :D

She who now shares my life grew up in a "bad" area, and thought I was brilliant when I installed an exterior door with a sturdy lock to the MBR. One can get in only with a lot of noisy effort when said door is locked. (doorway is appropriately reinforced)

Inheriting a new 7 year old grand-daughter, it appears wise to put a biometric lock on said sturdy door. S&W stays upright on the nightstand, the two of us can enter/exit easily, and the room remains defensible. Seems the best of both worlds.

Just an alternate approach at about the same price. (Well, except for the alimony) ;)

I wish I could go that route, unfortunately, we are still working on kicking the kids out of our bed(my wife has a really bad case of full-time working moms guilt, can't say I blame her) :eek: :D, so locked MBR is a NO GO at the moment.

I need to look into utilizing an SIEM(Security Information Event Management) system for early warning, correlating camera motion events etc.

:rolleyes:

Some of you guys go to far with the threat analyses.

It ain't that difficult.

I was thinking the same thing but couldn't think of a way to say it politely.:)

How do you think we stay in business? :eek: :D

On a more serious note, living in a city where the permissible use of deadly force in self-defense is severely limited, every second counts.