Win 308 vs Win 7mm
 

I am looking at getting a new bolt gun and have always wanted a Winchester Model 70.

I have decided on getting a Model 70 Super Grade Bolt action rifle. My Delema is deciding on 7mm vs Win 308.

I probaly will only be shooting 200-500 yds but want the ability to reach out at longer ranges. Being out here in the wide open SW I may need to do some real long shots.

It has been a while since I have looked at a new hunting rifle so here I am. I have a few rifles in 308 but have always thought a 7mm would be a good round.

What say you? Pro's and Con's for each would be appreciated.

:munchin

Are you thinking about getting the 7mm-08?

You gonna be shooting 150's?

You are in 7mm mag country out there. Load 120's for smaller stuff, load it up for elk size.

I have both, like them both. If I could only have one bolt gun, it would be the 7mm mag.

Yes that is the round.

That is what I have been thinking of. I do have some other bolt guns in 308.

Cost is one thing I have been looking at but after you get your loads worked out you do not have that much cost. If I want to just blow rounds I will use another gun and office ammo:eek:

I'm confused. Are you talking about 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm-08?

From a bolt gun, the .308 will do almost anything the 7mm Rem Mag will, for less money and with a longer barrel life.

Hunting bullets in these calibers are not designed to expand well below a certain velocity, and you MIGHT get another 100 meters or so at extreme range with the 7mm Mag. IMHO, those are ranges where very few of us should be shooting at game animals.

If you are not reloading, the 7mm Rem Mag is going to hurt your wallet.

To me, if you are considering a 7mm RM you might also consider the .300 Win Mag. The 7-08, the 6.5s, .260, .270, .280, and 284 could also be in the same range, and the .30-'06 is probably King.

What are you hunting, and at what ranges can you reliably drop the animal with the round you choose?

If you are on a hunting trip and walk into a hardware store in the middle of nowhere, I would bet that you can probably find .30-'06, .308, and .30-30 loads on the shelf. The others, like the 7mm Rem Mag, maybe not.

Me? I would go with the 308. Just my.02. YMMV.

TR

P.S.- The 7-08 is a good round, lighter recoiling because of the lighter bullets, and flatter shooting. It is a little harder to find ammo for. The .308 will use much heavier bullets and launch them farther, and would be a better choice for larger game, IMHO. Both are great rounds and I love the Model 70.

I recommend giving some consideration to 7mm WSM. It'll handle bullets up to 175gr (match), has a short action, does not use a belted case, and has some ballistic and practical advantages for hand loaders. I'm very happy with the ones I've shot which is why my gunsmith is working up a W70 in 7mm WSM for me. The entire family of WSM cartridges is underrated because after the initial hype, most people with established collections in the "standard" cartridges went "Ho hum" and lost interest because they don't appear to be a quantum improvement. For someone who has not already committed to the belted magnums, they can be a fantastic option. They ARE a quantum advancement over anything based on a .308 or 30-06 case and from a holistic perspective I believe they have significant advantages over the belted magnums. If I hadn't already had a R700 LA my father gave me (started life as a 7mm RUM - stupid expensive to shoot) and 1400 rounds of 300WM brass, I would never have built a 300 WM rifle; I'd have gone straight to the WSMs.

Long thoughtful reply deleted by unnecessarily short Forum timeout. n||m

If you're shooting 150's in a 7mm Rem Mag out to 500 yards, you may as well stick with .308. Only a few clicks difference on your elevation dial.
At 1000, my Brother used to outshoot me rat reglar with this 7mm.

Sorry for the confusion. The Mod 70 comes in 7mm-08 Rem

Here is the gun. http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...218&mid=535203

Everyone are bringing up good points. The cost of ammo is not going to be a factor but availabity is if we ge into a shortage again of ammo.

I like the long range specs and match specs for the 7mm-08
But the 308 is what all of my other long guns have. I got rid of my all but 1 9mm pistol in the quest to reduce my requirement to have multi types of ammo.

Looking at elk and goats from 300-500 meters.

TR good points on what rounds will be on the shelf out in the country side. Had not thought of that yet. The 30-06 and 308 are looking better from that aspect.

Keep the comments coming they are knocking out the cobwebs and getting me to think about other aspects...:munchin

I like the 7mm-08.

A few of my peers have them and really rate it as a caliber for meat hunting way down here.

But I am in a "12 step program" to reduce calibers in the armory to a more realistic number.

I reckon even with reloading it's still another set of dies/recipes and shooting dope to deal with.

Even though I'm really passionate about and enjoy hunting/shooting, I am all about "economy of effort" with the toolbox.

Especially when I might be reaching the point soon of having fewer days left than I've had so far. ;)

I think if the performance difference was far greater between the two I would look harder at it as being worth the incremental work required.

Man, those elk suck up lead. Goats, I've never shot one, but I've heard they are very heavy boned.

I put a 150 grain .308 round through both of a bull elk's lung's. Took two more shots to put him down. When I dressed him, the bullet (Sierra game king) had mushroomed perfectly, and put a hole the size of a Skoal can through the lungs. The problem is, an elk's lungs together are about the size of a car hood. I had effectively only given him a slight case of pneumonia.

If you get on youtube, you can take a look at some of the 1000-yard shots guys are pulling on elk with 7mm mags. The ballsitic coefficient of the 7mm is just out of this world. If you get the muzzle velocity above 3000 fps, it is one of the best long range rifles you'll find.

You've got and have had plenty of .308's. Might be time to max out another round...

This is why I am torn by what round to go with....... Decisions decisions.......

Glad to see you back:D

Going over ballistic charts now to get more data.

I'll throw in the 270. Probably going to be on the shelves of most stores, and the ballistics are not that much different than the 7mm Mag.

Allow me to "amplify" your statement: "A reloader, given competent load development with appropriate bullet selection and some of the newer powders, can achieve ballistic performance comparable to lighter magnum loads". Same thing is very possible comparing 30-06 and 300WM. Since its introduction the parent 30-06 case has lent itself to a number of versatile rounds.

IMO, the -06 is the best all-around rifle bullet for this continent up to about 600 yards, but I like 180's.

To hunt mountain goats, though, I'd use .300 win mag; I'd think opportunities for shots at 1000 or greater would be fairly common, with elevation and wind problems being de rigeur...

LMAO! That's the first thing you've posted lately that I can unequivocally agree with.

LOL +2

The 7mm-08 is a good cartridge, I personally hunt with a .260 Rem., which is the 7mm-08 (.284") necked down to .264" diameter.

In looking at the list of cartridges the Model 70 Super Grade is available in, I would choose 300 WSM. But that's just me.

If you want something in 7mm, go with the 7mm Rem. Mag., you can find that all over too. Gives you better long range capability too.

Big 7-08 fan
 

Have had, and handloaded for, this round for quite awhile. It's incredibly easy to get consistent accuracy out of, with a variety of powders. Most 7-08 chambers are a little short so, although there are bigger .284 bullet weights, typically 150gr is about your limit while keeping the velocity up unless you have a long-action magazine box and can open things up in the barrel a touch. My favorite all-around (and not spendy) bullet is Hornady's simple 139gr boat-tail, same bullet used by the old Western cartridge company way back, like eons ago in their 7x57 ammo. Even till recently I've found boxes of those very consistent in weight throughout many boxes. If not, a 140gr Ballistic Tip performs wonderfully. My powder of choice is Win 760, but YMMV.

For some more velocity you can do the 120gr Ballistic Tip as well. That particular 120 is not just for varmints. I talked to Nosler a few years ago and, because hot-rodders were loading to disintegration-velocity in their blasters, they stiffened up that bullet and it makes a very fine "across the field" deer round. My MV's are down about 175fps from published due to the 20" bbl on my 'meat' gun but for white-tails it's not noticeable. From a M-70 you should have no problem getting good velocity out of your loads; the accuracy will take care of itself if you do your part. A great choice & for most 'sporting' purposes would take it over a .308 hands-down. Very pleasant to shoot as well if there are younger ones that might use it.

All that said, there is no way it's going to compete with any of the 7mm mags in terms of real long-distance work, in a rifle of practical size. It was designed as a modern replacement with 7x57 ballistics to avoid "hotting up" a 7x57 (great round) and having someone stick it in their beat up 19th century gun and then stick gun-makers with lawsuits.

In a mag nowadays I'd probably go with the WSM, but that's just my dislike of belted cases, unnecessary in most rounds.

Shopping for a new rifle; what a neat dilemma! :)

I have a Model 70 in .270 Win. I use it on hogs with 140 gr bullets. Kill's 'em dead . I reload the 140gr but I also use 130 Rem Corelokt for antelope, also dead right now. The ammo is available anywhere, inexpensive and very accurate.

I concur on the .270 as an excellent choice

Well in the .308 group I've got a .243, .260, .308 and a .338 federal.
In the 30-06 group I have a .270, several 30-06s and a .35 Whelen.

For the past 3 years I've only used the .270 for hogs, deer and coyotes.
(I'm using the federal 130 gr Fusion since all my reloading stuff has been in storage)

During the past two times there were ammo shortages .270 could be found almost anywhere.

Re-reading, if you're looking at elk at that distance you really do want to be throwing a .284 of 160gr or so, or a .308 180gr - of stout bullet construction. Both of those can be had with great BC's & outstanding ballistics. Otherwise it's into 300WSM territory (again my prejudice against belted cases) and they do bark notably more if that's a concern but they can sure reach out there. Judicious handloading will get a 7mm Rem Mag or 30-06 there no problem. Also, from lots of rounds out of the barrel on both of these (my heart is with a 30-06) both those calibers have some really good factory loads available that do what they say & still yield a couple thou in energy out at 300 where it matters. (Hornady's 162gr 7mm RM load is superb & consistent.)

IMO the .270 is a wonderful cartridge but only if handloaded. During a period owning a lovely M70 Featherweight I did quite a bit of chrono work and collected once-fired brass the old-fashioned way, as well as a binder full of data. Wonderful as it is, in most factory loadings, the .270 is one of the most over-rated rounds from its published ballistic figures in a hunting size rifle whose data ever got published (many decades ago). Just my $.02 but based on actually shooting it, alot.

Get a HCAR. 1 MOA @ 900 meters with 30 round mags.

Helluva "social/ranch" rifle though, damn. :D

Looks nice but at that price point I can get 3 different Model 70's

You're thinking about goats, Bob. I'm talkin' Mongolian Horde.

Got a hold of a used but immaculate Model 70 in '06 last year. I like the .308 because of the recoil and because it's a military cartridge but I also like the '06 because I like the balance of a long action better than a short one. Agree with a few of the others that the '06 is a premier round.

I have been checking with local gun shops and boy do they want to gouge youto process a Mod 70 if I order it or gouge you if you buy it through them.

Went to the base BX and they are contacting Winchester to see what they can get it for me. Normally 10-20% less than on the street.

Still torn between the 06 and 7mm. If it is 7mm it will be the Mag round......

Find a local dealer who will do the paperwork for $20 or so.

Go to Gunbroker or a big dealer, order the gun and pay for it yourself.

Have the dealer send his FFL or you get a copy and mail it to the seller.

Go fill out the usual paperwork and pick up the rifle.

Easy peasy.

TR

If you do go magnum, give serious thought to the WSM. I believe it's a better round overall because it achieves everything the 7mmRM does in a lighter rifle with less powder. Yes - lighter has it's trade-offs but if I'm lugging it over hill and dale for that one shot that brings home the bacon, I'll gladly suffer a little more felt recoil. NTM - the rifle the gunsmith is building for me is intended for 1000 yd competition. I've shot his and the accuracy is phenomenal.

Well I am in NM and I went to 3 stores and they all wanted 80-120 to do it.......They want to make more than the usual fee.

I can buy it from Winchester with a discount and beat Gunbroker. Will wait to see what the base can do. They will waive the fee if I have it shipped ther. He thinks he can get it at a good price. I am not in a hurry as I still have to get a scope....... That will be the next thread :eek:

Hell lets just ask for input. What say you for a good mid priced scope for a Model 70 for a near sighted FOG. MIL Dot is what I want.......

Any recomendations ?

Weight and recoil are not an issue.

What is better in you experience 7mm REM Mag or 300 WSM?
Never shot a 300 WSM

My 300 is a WM. That choice was made for me because the rifle was a LA and I had ready access to the brass. 1400 rounds of once fired match brass is a) a lifetime supply, and b) worth almost what the rifle is. As for the 7mm REM mag, it has better ballistics but less choice WRT bullets - 30 cal really is king when it comes to bullet choices. My 7mm (when the gunsmith gets finished with it will be a 7mm WSM and it'll primarily be for long range shooting with 175 gr. SMKs. HTH.