1911 rail guns?
 

I am strongly considering getting a 1911 rail gun, probably either Colt or Kimber. It will be used as a duty weapon. Anybody here on the forum have any experience with either?

Thanks!!

Not a fan of kimbers style of firing pin safety. After wear or if improperly timed from the factory it can release the hammer before releasing the firing pin block causing failure to fire and leaving a nice dent in the primer. Also the small pin appears to be easily damaged on mine.

I had the same problem with a colt. Not a fan of those firing pin safeties period.

I had a kimber custom tle II, and it was a great gun. I had a surefire x200 mounted on it and it shot accurately and reliably. I got rid of it, but I still have a springfield armory trp without a rail. I had to do a few things with it tho. The two piece extended guide rod kept loosening after some extended range time, and I couldn't use lock tite because the guide rod has to be taken apart to break down the gun. The only company I could find a one piece extended guide rod from was Wilson Combat, so I got it and it solved the problem. I also had issue with the mags that came with the gun. Frankly, they sucked. They generally either failed to feed the round all the way out of the mag or the slide completely closed without ever stripping the round. Enter wilson combat mags, and the problem was solved. It's now a very accurate gun that shoots whatever I load into it and functions perfectly.

Do you have a specific price range?
 

I have quite a few ranging from standard models to complete customs. For the money, the TRP Operator (Not the regular TRP) is the best quality in my experience. It performs just as well as my higher end customs at half the cost. Just my opinion, but definitely worth checking out if you haven't already.

Mike

Thanks for the info guys!! Yeah, I'd really like a Wilson, but unlike our present administration, I realize that there are practical limits for my budget :rolleyes:

I have the Springfield operator and that was my carry weapon with MCSO. It never had any issues through the 4-5k of rounds down it with a sure fire x- 300 mounted on it

I've had nothing but trouble with Kimber. Feedway stoppages (even with Wilson mags). Slide stop walking out. Barrel bushing taking a trip down range. Sold it and bought a Glock. Zero issues there. :munchin

Also had problems with STI. $60 mags that, out of the box, like to squirt rounds out. Doublefeed city. Also, unable to load mags to stated capacity. With vetted mags, the gun was awesome, but it was just too massive for CCW.

Never had an issue with a Springfield. Nor with any of my Glocks. Regardless of caliber or whether I had a light mounted or not.

I've carried Sig P220 DAK for almost ten years on duty. Never had a malfunction.

I carried a 1911 for decades and I never had one that worked without malfunctions. To this day I love all the drills we did to remediate all the malfunctions the 1911 is capable of..... In my opinion they are nothing more than boat anchors and should be treated as such. There's hundreds of better weapons out there. Do your own research or I hope you have picked out a gunsmith for your new 1911 purchase. 1911 it was state of the art 101 years ago......

Carrying "cocked and locked", it's so cliché. Ever wonder why there's no one out there designing a handgun (besides the 1911 clones) that is carried cocked and locked? Enjoy.

I used to be surprised if I got through a session with a 1911 without having some type of failure to (whatever). With HK, I'd be stunned to experience a single instance.

I think that's why Glock took over for the LEO world after Miami-an autoloader that nearly always functions.

I haven't kept up with the CAG guys for a long time, but I'd think they'd switch over at some point from the 1911 system (if they haven't already).

Several years ago, they switched to Glocks. Guys still have 1911's but they don't work well in the desert...

Heckler & Koch MK23/Mark23
 

This particular pistol was developed for SOCOM on an RFP. Basically it is a .45 ACP with stringent operational requirements demanded for a combat handgun. Accuracy is comparable to custom-built match pistols. The pistol was tested for accuracy after firing over 30,000 rounds, the specified service life of a pistol; this would be 600 50 round boxes of .45 ACP ammunition at @ $29.00/box total cost would run @ $ 17,400. The pistol has a 5.87 inch threaded barrel & according to the Technical people at Heckler & Koch (in Columbus GA.) Knight's Armament is the only sound suppressor ever tested with this pistol. The pistol does not come with night sights but you can have them added . As with most products from Heckler & Koch they are expensive & usually not available...Iam sure their are other OP's on this site have better info on this weapon system than I do & I would appreciate any comments they have to offer.
Regard's.....Tom Kelly

I like the Sig 229R in .40 S&W - however, I'll gladly use whatever is at hand when I need it.

Richard :munchin

Thanks for the info. Makes sense.

I've had 2 19's, a 17, a 22 and a 30 over the years, but never kept them more than a few months, because I couldn't get used to the trigger. I don't ever remember any of KB's or failures to function, but I just didn't spend enough time to get used to them.

I plan on getting a Sig 239 DA/SA when one becomes available.

(Not to hijack away from 1911 rail guns...)

After all the talk of HKs on this forum, it's nice see that a few QPs use SIGs, let alone appreciate them. :cool:

I will always treasure the 1911 as it's the first model ever I could shoot hole-in-hole. It's also still the most hand/grip friendly IMHOO. If you look at the handle cross section, then your hand cross section from under with fingers flexed, it's an elliptical shape. Not a tapered rectangle (ahem....glocks)

Having said that, once I solidified muscle memory/neuro pathway with a G17, I never looked back. Besides, once D Sevigny beat $2000+ 1911 custom with his $600 G34 on national and international matches, the switch was obvious. Also, glock mod costs a few bucks here and there vs. 1911's few hundreds here and there. I experimented with the G17 striker spring and hard primers ie. reducing the coil to the point where it can still ignite hard primers. Now, it has "almost" a 1911 or HK SA pull to it.No prob with 100 yds torso shot.

Had it not for the match M9 I'm saving for, I too was planning to get the Sig 239. Dead solid reliable. I was teaching a 14 yo lady with poor forearm strength and that G17 never survived one shot without FTE, FT full battery, etc. Switched her to Sig239 and not a single failure. With renewed confidence in the tool, she was able to focus more on fundamentals and got all head shots at 10 yards. For a first timer, I called her intro session a success.

Ditto on the CAG switch to glock. At least the three of them I ran into at separate time and place verified it. The maintenance cost of 1911 vs glock was a stark contrast.

oops...sorry for the hijack.....threads on 1911 tend to get hijacked a lot here :D

Please PM me with modifications you used to get a (almost) 1911 trigger pull.

Me too!

Kimber Parts Place Holder
 

An excellent read for 1911 duty use is www.10-8performance.com as a well thought out information resource. Go to the tab "Articles" and you'll see numerous articles covering selection, magazines, manufacturing, etc. This is updated regularly and is all real world information.

I own a Kimber Custom TLE II and as was said to me when I took their excellent 1911 user course, THE GLOCK APPRECIATION CLASS. They offer a course other than the Armorers Course, which showed me all the potential problems of the 1911.

Plain and simple, the 1911 has become a hobby gun. If you own one, you need to own a second so you have one available when the other one gets sent off for repairs. Also, units that carry the 1911 have full-time Armorers to maintain them. Do you?

Magazines are all Chip McCormick for me. Some types of Wilson mags have shown to be no good; the version with the slot down the middle flexes and goes out of shape.

I like my 1911, but I carry a SIG 220 for work. That being said, going global would have a Glock on my side, as they are everywhere and parts follow.

Of note with my Kimber, I have an external extractor, though it is a Seriess II pistol. I was told Kimber went back to an internal extractor. During our class, I was able to take the pistol down to every pin and spring. It took five hands to hold all the parts for the unique Kimber extractor assembly to line up all the pins and springs. Not something you want to attempt in the middle of some foreign land or even a living room.

As much as I like the 1911, and the SIG, the HK45C is what will replace the others. SIG has had some QC issues over the years, but I have never had a failure with either 220 or 226 I own. The Kimber 1911 is a tack driver, but I did have a couple of failures to lock back. Replacement of a part fixed that, but it sticks in my mind and has been said here... We do as many 1911 drills to work around the failure as we do to operate it.

Buy an HK and never compromise. :D

FlagDayNCO

IMHO, saying all 1911s are ill produced and breakage prone is like saying all Harley's Spew oil and cant stay on the road. What was true 20 years ago is not necessarily true today. There are plenty of well built, high quality 1911s on the market today at varying price points.

For reference, I carry a Glock 22 for duty carry and a 27 for off duty (only because my agency requires it). I am my agencies National Armorer and I fix broken Glocks almost daily. They are not bulletproof and they require maintenance/repairs just like any other weapon. They are not the holy grail of pistols that Glocks marketing machine would have you believe. Don't get me wrong, they are a reliable, serviceable option but they are not the end all, be all. The same can be said of pretty much any other major brand, IMO.

My recommendation to the OP is that you'll get your money's worth and a reliable weapon from the major companies' mass produced 1911s such as Springfield or Kimber. If you have the funds go with a reputable custom builder and have one built to your specs (such as Wilson or Ed Brown).


The main thing is to become as proficient as possible with whatever weapon you settle on.

When I get big, I'm gonna get a Sig just like Ziva's. :D

Thanks to everybody for the input--I actually do appreciate it.

I have put a Colt Rail gun on order. I decided to stick with the 1911, primarily because it just fits my small hands so well, and I shoot it well.

Another factor is that all my holsters, mags, mag pouches etc. are for 1911s. With all the $$ I'm laying out for this volunteer Sheriff's Reserve, all I can say is I've got this pain in the pocketbook. (in fact, I learned just yesterday that the dept. doesn't even provide us Reserve Deputies with portable radios--so I get to add that to the growing list of stuff to buy)---its a good thing my wife is a patient and understanding woman. :D

If I may make a suggestion: When you get the gun, detail disassemble it and soak all the metal parts (everything but the grips) in mineral oil overnight. Scrub the parts with a toothbrush, wipe them down and then clean it as you normally would, but leave a fairly heavy film of CLP or whatever you use on the parts and reassemble it. Then fire as many rounds as you can afford (at least a couple hundred, if you can get it) of your duty ammo through the weapon. After that, detail disassemble it again, clean and lube normally.

Dusty: Thanks for the recommendation--I'll give it a shot (pun intended), once it comes in--its on backorder and the dealer said he had no idea when he might get one in.......

Well, that'll give you time to stock up on ammo...wait. ;)

Congrats. I think you'll be happy. Here's a pic of my custom Colt Officers. One of my favorites.

I have a basic GI 1911A1 from Springfield Armory. Nothing fancy, just a "vanilla" handgun. About two years ago while qualifying for Title 18 carry, it malfunctioned three times. I still passed but was concerned a little because I was using Winchester SXT at the time. My Instructor (a ret. QP) and I had a problem with trying to figure out what was going wrong. So I sent it back to SA along with the magazine I was using and advised them that this was my carry gun and explained the malfunctions. I even advised them the ammo used.

Got it back within 2 weeks with a new barrel and fitted barrel bushing. Since then it hasn't malfunctioned once.

With that kind of unexpected service, I'm going to stay with them. It is a great Winter handgun for Title 18 carry but not so much in the summer. Going to go with something this summer that is smaller and that I can hide while running/walking.

Kind of tired carrying the .45 in Blackhawks version of this www.activeprogear.com/jogger_holster.html and being asked all the time, "Where's the Puppy?":rolleyes:

The Reaper introduced me in a post of his on carry pistols to the Springfield XDS, 6 rounds of .45 ACP in a comfortable platform about an inch wide.

Hmmm, had my mind set on a Glock 9mm. Will take a look at that one though, however it might be in 9mm.

Thanks.

I like the XDs .45 as well. Still need put some rounds through it to get proficient.

The XDs in 9mm has started shipping and you should see quite a few by July.

.45, .40, .45 GAP, .357 Sig or 9mm, I believe, are all available when they have them.

In July.....sheesh


On Glocks, going with their "Blue Line" I am still looking at a few months wait for one of them.

The Smith and Wesson Shield in 9mm and .40 is very concealable. They seem very reliable for everyone else but me. My .40 was failing to feed Remington Golden Sabre until I polished the feed ramp. Then yesterday the end of the recoil spring broke. Still waiting to hear from S&W.

The local gunshop said that there should be a .45 ACP version coming out this year. The Shields are all single stack.

My partner was quoted being a few months out on a Gen 3 G19 and it took 2-3 weeks.

Word!
After 4 years and prob 140k+ dry fire (I built habit of dry firing before bed and upon waking up, or anytime I got the "itch" lol), my firing pin actually broke while racking. John at Shooter Supply is the man. He got it fixed in no time for zilch. I always try to spend some smackaroo in his shop. John is good people.

That is why I've never flaunted glock as the best thing since invention of fire. In fact, I would tell people there are much more reliable, more user friendly, but also more $$$$ secondaries out there. The question I presented to potential glocker is always whether that more something is worth the $$$ difference to them. Thus, I do advertise glock as the best buy out there.


never knew there's a wait line for blue line now. When I got mine straight out of the Smyrna factory from SPD, I paid $399. Around here you should not pay more than $425 before tax, and it should come with three hi-cap mags. Looking back now, I should have stuck with the shark-gills gen 3, and avoided gen 4. The trigger-pull quality tradeoff to allow that smaller grip.....:boohoo

I got one today!!!! I soooo want to head out to the range RIGHT NOW but HH6 is at work and if go without her there will be hell to pay....I can't wait for tomorrow!

How'd it go finding bullets?