What to Do?
 

Okay, disaster planning check here.

Obviously, we need to have a plan for disaster preparation so that we can make the right moves to maximize our likelihood of survival.

BTW, it isn't hoarding if you are buying and storing in times of plenty.

You have whatever is on your possession already. Events unfold over the evening that shock you when you turn on the TV tomorrow morning. Your trigger events are occurring/have occurred. You are in Condition Orange. It would appear that a political/economic/societal collapse or natural disaster is imminent. For planning purposes, assume that you are soon going to have to get by without public utilities or reliable resupply for an unknown period. The situation is permissive, in that you can take whatever lawful action you choose, at least for the next few hours. It is a weekday. There is no immediate threat to your life, stores are still stocked, cash (or credit cards) are still being accepted, but people are increasingly aware that there is a problem and are getting more and more anxious.

You have a little time and whatever resources you have or can gather.

What do you do? What do you do first?

Place your actions in priority order, most important to least important, just as you would in planning.

Anyone care to share?

TR

Interesting Question
 

Interesting Question

The key would be that only a couple of hours warning can make a big difference.

Those who live in the southeast coastal areas see that when a Hurricane approaches their area. Get yours in the morning and watch the crowd fight over the last loaf of bread in the afternoon.

I'd take the pickup to Sams and get about 24 big bags of dog food, similar rice, lots of cooking oil and assorted cases of canned meat and veggies. Fill all vehicles and gas containers. Test generator. Check news and then buy freezer foods and general staples from local store. Get cash. On the way back from the bank swing by Lowe's and pick up a shit pot load of various seed packs for next year.

I would consider all of the above just "Topping Off" and except for the rice would be used up anyway.

People - You can practice on a small garden. You will have the experience to prepare more of your back yard over the winter and expand the garden the following spring.

Concur with Pete's plan. Want to make sure I can pack all that stuff in my Jeep/truck. Would assemble the Grab Bag (fanny pack) (which in my plan is a beginning element of the Back Pack which is the beginning element of the BOB (Box) which is a pair of 100qt coolers) and make a drive along the most suitable evacuation route. The goal is to get to an area where I can wait safely for a time to re-group and better assess the situation. Purpose of the drive is to ID most recent landmarks and road conditions, detours, etc and validate the map, considering alternative routes, etc. The route should follow less traveled passes, avoiding potential high congestion choke-points along Interstates, major river crossing structures, etc. There's a trade off between the quickest route and the route that would offer the lower profile. As is mentioned elswhere on this topic, what you have may be of value to others.

(Still making notes re: this thought...good thread.)

FWIW
 

FWIW, attached is the BOB plan I'm working on. The idea is to have critical items spread out over more than one method of carry. Notion is that if one method is compromised then there is some form of back-up. Given the scenario, the objective at this early stage would be to locate all the required contents so that a Bug Out (if necessary) could be accomplished in the minimum amount of time, and review/validate an evacuation route.

This is a work in progress and admittedly not good enough right now to consider final.

FWIW only.

Attachment 15347

Cooking Fire
 

A cooking fire is something that takes practice and cooking over it.

Bags of Charcoal and standard propane bottles will run out pretty quick.

One, repeat one, piece of regular seasoned wood will provide enough fire to fry a pan of Spam, cook a small pot of rice and heat some water for clean up.

Trick is to take an ax to it and split it into finger size pieces. Use about half to get the fire going, start frying and boiling water, adding pieces as needed and then finish any slow cooking with the coals. Kinda' flash fire cooking.

Cooking large meals for many people will require lots of fire wood and bigger fires.

This can be practiced now. Get one of those $3 grills at the local food store. Pick up dead sticks in your yard or get one of those $5 bundles of wood when you get the grill. Get everything ready, build a wood fire in it and cook the meal. Kids will love helping - its an "adventure".

Good, solid thinking.

Pete hit the nail on the head. Any prediction of snow around here and the stores are immediately stripped of mik, bread, and eggs, or as someone called it earlier, French Toast buying. Hurricane coming and all of the above, plus batteries, flashlights, generators, plywood, bottled water, etc., get cleaned out.

Anyone considered putting any water away before the municipal water supply fails?

Sometimes, I wish I had a well on my property.

With an uncertain situation, might be a good time to check your carry weapon and consider adding extra ammo, a vest, and a long gun to the vehicle loadout.

Do you take everyone in the house with you, or leave someone at home to hold down the fort and make preparations there?

TR

I have been contemplating looking for a handpump or other solution for the well pending a power outage pump failure. Well depth has a lot to do with it and it may turn out that the solution is adptation of a stationary bike to operate the pump. Had a surface pump out in AZ, so a 35' depth would be easier. Not that shallow back East so that is problematic.

Route selection is key for evac, specifically in certain situations where an understanding of historical storm tracks and prevailing winds are taken into consideration. Avoidance of dense population centers, movement to alternate site will require an extended route avoiding lines of drift followed by the average population. Currently planning on a multi-day movement to cover what is normally about 3 - 4 hours.

Ret10:

This is an option, although limited to depth, might be a good addition to the "plan".

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Water__..._H426355?Args=

Water table in my neck of the woods is about 35' max. One would have to learn how to "read" the geology in vic of the campsite.

Concur with your est re: travel time to a place where one could sustain security and survival.

city plan
 

I too agree with Pete's basic plan, with a few specific geographic additions.

Living in a city, my basic plan is to make my way 30 miles south to family in the hills. I have a few close friends I would tell to meet me at my place in an hour, while I load up the SUV with my BOB bag, and other guns, ammo, dry food and warm clothing. I think the most important thing in my case is to first clear the city before the panic hits. If the roads south aren't gridlocked yet my preference is to just leave together and wait to hit the stores/bank in the suburbs instead of the city.

I have a friend with a boat, ( thanks for the suggestion TR) if the panic has hit the roads, we drive/walk to the boat. He is teaching me how to operate the boat. He travels a lot for work, our agreement is in exchange for a spot on the boat, if something hits will he is away I will help his wife and kids get to the boat.

I would also try and call family across the country and tell them where I am headed, and to take step for themselves. I wouldn't leave anyone behind in the city.

Since it is in the evening and everyone is home.

If it is natural disaster related Tornado's and Ice Storms

Have the wife head to the gas station to fill up and then to the store to pick up some food goods and some more batteries. I would run by the bank do an ATM withdrawal, then hit the gas station to fill up the truck, the gas cans and a propane tank or two if needed. Listen to the radio while I am out.


If it is political unrest related.

Call my cousins to see what is going on down in their rural area and determine if we are better off staying put or heading to the hills. If we leave town, we load up the go gear, hit the ATM, the Gas Station and then hit the road. If we stay put we follow the above plan.

Peeking in here slowly TR, Sir. Am sure there are things missing from my Plan of Action below...just hope it is okay to add to the thread Sir...

Around here, "April Showers bring May Flowers." In short, my AO rests in the center of Tornado Alley. My plan is:

Announcement:Tornado emminent:

1. Secure handheld communication devices; Cell phone, Phone, Battery operated radio.

2. Check in Safe room for Back-Ups of; Proper safety equipment, communication equiptment, evacuation equiment, sustainable supplies...Dried/canned food and bottled water, required meds, personal hygene products, changes of essential clothing and footware, and an envelope of cash, all in place, check.

3. Evacuate to safe room; All persons in house. If power is not available, have manual lifting/transporting devices at the ready.

Holly

You missed the point.

If you were going to shelter in place, or come back to the house after making the buying run, the question was would you leave anyone there to secure the house while you were out, to make preparations, fill water containers, make a quick pass through for potentially useful items, secure the house, nail up plywood for shutters, put all battery operated devices on their chargers, make phone calls or contact attempts, monitor the situation, etc.

It would be a shame to have your own house and supplies looted while you were out making preparations.

I would probably get the kids home, and then have at least one of them stay there while the wife and I made our collection run. Assuming that the shelves were still stocked, I need to make about six or seven stops for purchases, etc. If the wife and one of the kids (extra hands and security) gassed up and hit the Wally World, I could visit the bank, top off the truck and gas cans, head for the hardware or farm supply store, hit a grocery for as much as I could find, and stop by the gun store on the way home to finish picking up ammo.

If the event did not occur, I could return a lot of the items we picked up but didn't need, or as Pete suggested, just use it up.

If a natural disaster struck, and did not destroy the house, we would be GTG for at least a month without any outside support. Probably several months with some more water and gas. If it were some sort of civil disturbance or breakdown of law and order, I think we are relatively well prepared for that contingency also.

TR

Stay or Go
 

Stay or Go?

Caused by man or caused by nature?

Total with no end in sight or temp of a few weeks maybe a couple of months?

For those hitting the road and heading for the back country there has to be a tigger point of "go - no go".

Go too soon and as things calm down you return to a looted home. Wait too long and you're easy pickings in a road ambush.

Stay, and stay loo long, and you're stuck in place.

Stay and in a suburban area you become stuck with your neighbors.

Comms, Comms, more comms and back up comms. Power? Solar panels with a converter to keep cell phones, etc charged.

Bikes? A good town/country bike with mid size tires and cargo racks. If gas and food becomes rationed or scarce local in and about transport might be better on a bike and in groups using security.

The key - as TR stated - is that all of the parts of your plan should be in place. You spot something that may happen and you have a couple of hours jump on the sheeple.

Thats why for me it would be dog food. The Curb Setters eat about a bag a week but in return are early warning.

Practice parts of your plan to make sure they all work.

That makes sense, I hope to avoid that decision by having my place be the meeting point. I would pack stuff on hand for an hour into the SUV while the friends showed up. We wouldn't go for supplies until we had cleared the city and were in the suburbs. I also feel it is best for the group not to separate while in the city.

This thread is the one that finally has me saving some of these documents, and budgeting to make some intelligent purchases NOW, as not to be an early casualty in the event a catastrophe like this happens - I also think that at a time like that, a hardcopy of the Ranger handbook is going to prove a life saver.

This is just what I have been preparing for since I have arrived in the middle of Hurricane central here in the Caribbean. Today I got up and serviced the Generator and prepared new cables to run the house with. Been looking for good fuel cans that are heavy plastic instead of these new ones that are thin as hell.

Set up the shelfs last week in the garage to store the bulk items that I am picking up. Working on my master list which is a work in progress. Being here I can not run so I have to ride it out if we get hit by a hurricane.

The above listings and comments are helping me refine my list. These type of threads benefit all. Keep commenting.

Pete Sir,

My above post was our POA for the most likely situation, a Tornado. However, I have studied other threads here on PS.com that dealt with emergency evac, due to a long term event.
I took from those threads that those with a disability would be a liability in any of these situations, and that plans should be made for them to be left behind.

Since that is not an option for me, am curious if there is any contingent idea for the above situation, for folks that incur this issue?:munchin

Holly:)

Harsh way to put it....
 

Thats a harsh way to put it but..............

Special Medication? Specialized medical treatment a couple of times a week?

Anything "Special" and you need to be twice as prepared.

Questions:

1) Anybody have knowledge of a portable HAM radio that is worth packing-up and taking? Are these vehicle-mounted?

2. The link to the hand-pump water well stuff is very interesting. I have never messed with hand-digging a well; the options in that link look great, and the book they sell might be really handy.
a. Anybody know of any cheaper manuals(fm's?) that discuss primitive water wells? Anybody have a review of any book like that discussed?
b. Anybody have experience digging/installing a hand-dug/primitive well?

I would not want to execute that plan, but I do not have to live with the consequences.

Time is essential.

Unless your shopping is for non-essentials only, or you get VERY early warning/decisions, you will likely find the shelves empty.

OTOH, once all of the people show at the assembly point, do you need to go back, or could you coordinate a link-up en route?

Just thinking out loud here.

TR

Yes Sir, we are. And that fact is due in large part to reading threads here on PS.com over the years, and following the advise given.
(Would also encourage anyone who has a family member that is disabled to read-read-read the," Be Preared," and other Threads.)

Holly:lifter

So, the day I start seriously researching survivalism and the "be prepared" threads, is a day that started with a ruck in preparation for SFAS, reading "The Secret Knowledge of Water," and I hear not only about a growing oil slick, but a water main break in Boston that has already led to store shelves being bare of bottled water. It's time to seriously reconsider where and how I stock my shelves, and how I can better my odds when the SHTF.

TR,

Sir I value your opinion highly and will reconsider. Pete mentioned trips to a grocery store, a Sam's, and a Lowes. I would only add a trip to the gun store. Simply put , other than the basic grocery, the limiting factor is these types of stores for whatever reason don't really exist within SF city limits. There is one Costco but it is already in a sketchy neighborhood, and the only one in the city might be quite popular. As for bullets, as of last fall it is impossible to buy bullets or a gun within a 5 mile radius of city limits. Even the sporting goods stores here don't carry bullets, and there are are no Walmarts for miles.

Our destination is about 30 miles south, once you clear city limits, on the Peninsula there are all sorts of Costco's, a Lowe's for seed, and 2-3 gunshops to buy ammo. I will reconsider immediately buying local groceries in SF before leaving, but I thought with time of the essence, as soon as the go decision was made, clear datum first, then hit stores en route, frankly betting the suburbs will be less pro-active than the city. A friend experienced the gridlock and dangers of the highways in Houston during Katrina. Unless you have a boat or want to deal with a bridge, south is the only way out of SF, it will be the same here quickly.

Once the others show up at the assembly point (my apartment) there is no need to go back, the boat marina, Safeway, and freeway are all within 1/2 mile of my apartment. The risk is you miss the food anyway and still get caught in the freeway gridlock nightmare, I wanted to adhere to KISS, but perhaps just loading up and hitting the local Safeway enroute to the boat is most prudent, I will keep thinking on this.

Thank You,

AKV

I would say that your most likely threat is an earthquake and there is little warning there. How does your escape route look to withstand major earthquake damage? Few/Good bridges, a route away from the fault lines, etc?

Unless there are civil disturbances associated with the event, you may not need, or be able to evacuate. Fire could be a problem, just like it was after the big one.

If I were in your location, I would want to have enough basics on hand to get by for two weeks, minimum. A month would be much better, as would a friend with a boat docked nearby.

TR

Hand Digging a Well
 

Craigpo:

The below USGS info site from a Google Search. There were other references (one from a homesteader in Montana that was interesting) but this looks more usable info for planning purposes. I've talked with people who have used the drill method represented by the Lehman's link successfully, but have never done one myself. The technique for accessing a water source depends a lot on the geology of the area you're in. A lot depends on depth of the water table, time of year, resources available to dig, drive, or drill a well, etc.

Anyway, sir, hope this helps.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthgwwells.html

I would avoid evac at all costs. I'd rather be miserable in my own home than miserable in someone elses.

I'd buy a bunch of food that doesn't require much, if any, cooking. My stomach is a garbage can, so raw hot dogs and bread is just as good to me as a nice hot meal.

If it was too hot or too cold and there was no power, I could periodically sit in my truck with the engine running. I have something like 400 gallons of fuel in my yard, so running the truck all day/night isn't really an issue. I've also got sirius radio, so I could get news from there if nowhere else.

If I could get (afford) a decent (2500 watts or more) portable generator from Home Depot or Lowes, I'd get one so I can have hot water and a fridge.

No natural disaster around here is going to cause anything more than a power outage for a day or two in the extreme. That is hardly a problem.

But . . . if Three Mile Island has some kind of issue, and millions are forced to evacuate, where is it that I'm going to go that the millions aren't? I'd be like a grain of sand on a beach at an evac center of some kind. It goes back to being miserable and irradiated at home instead of miserable and irradiated in a refugee camp.

I can't answer the HAM question, but as for water, page 474 of Country Wisdom and Know-How has a decent overview on wells. I love this book although it isn't built well. You can pick it up for under $15 on Amazon and it's been able to answer every question I've thrown at it so far. It's nice to not have to call the family for things I'd know if I had been paying attention growing up. :)

Another set of books worth owning is the foxfire series. They consist of 12 books but the first 9 are really the best. If nothing else, they are a facinating look at an almost extinct way of life in the mountains. I don't remember them addressing wells, but they do talk about a variety of nice to know information like generating power with water wheels, bee keeping, gardening from scratch with hand tools, smoke houses, etc. Plus they don't suffer from the distracting tone of panic you see in some of the "this is how we did it before electricity" manuals that are made to cater to survivalists.

I'd also like some info on this - I've got family in AK and would like to have comms with them.

Digging Your Own Well
 

It's not an easy afternoons job, but it can be done. Again, it depends on several factors; from soil type, to risk of adjacent contamination from fertilizers/additives, to equipment availability. Not sure of expedient methods other than solar stills or digging into surface springs. One would be wise to have bleach in your BOB.

Anyway, here's a link to a blog that offered some thoughts to consider.

http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/2008...ging-well.html

(Can't certify the reliability of this info. YMMV.)

Isn't the Government going to take care of us. I mean thats the attitude these days.
I live in Wilmington NC. Definitely in the Hurricane Zone. I keep enough goods in my Apartment to last me two weeks. Three weeks if I really stretched it. Most disaster relief will be there before two weeks.
More then likely I will pack up my valuables and leave town. One of the benefits of renting. I have no attachment to this place. I also don't spend all my money in Home Depot every weekend.

Related to wells, in my area, if you want to learn about water, if your neighbors don't have wells, you talk to the health department person in charge of well permits, or you talk to the well drillers and surveyors. They can probably tell you with an amazing degree of accuracy what kind of challenge you will face on your property. Those folks have usually forgotten more about underground water than you will ever want to know. I live in a rural area though.

If you are in an urban area. I'd check with the public works or a geological or environmental firm to learn about where the water is. In any area that might have had industrial activity or does currently, I would check land parcels a mile or so around your location with the county register of deeds for well restrictions in your area due to groundwater contamination as well as checking with the health department before starting any well project.In areas that had industrial activity, even if that activity is long gone, the water can be nasty.

Don't forget to test the water. Remember that a standard drinking water test that health departments do for low cost does not check the water for industrial contaminants such as solvents. Testing for solvent and other chemical contamination can be done through private laboratories and is a fair bit more costly, but far better than drinking benzene. Test water quality early and often, just like Chicago voting.

Talking about USGS Maps reminded me of something.

If you are going to shelter in place, the USGS Topo maps and State/County watershed or standard maps will often show small creeks and streams that might provide water sources a lot closer than the ones you might have in mind.

I have a well, but it is at 90 feet and has a pressure tank on top of the casing that makes a hand pump not really feasible. I have planned around water storage and resupply from another location. I live within 4 miles of a lake and had always noted it as the likely water source I would use if needed. About a year ago, I had a friend tell me about a very small unnamed and unmarked stream that crossed the road I commute on. I had never noticed the stream, as it was small and really blended in, and was in a curved area of road that demands a driver's full attention. This stream was farther away from my house than the lake so it wasn't the best water source for me, but it got me looking.

Even though I have Topo maps for my immediate area. I got online to see what kind of info was available. I found the state of MI GIS Department has the USGS Topo maps available online for viewing. From the Topo maps, I found three different small streams, all of which cross roads, which are all closer than the lake I had originally identified as my water source of choice.

In the event of need, I now have cut the distance to water in half. The different sources I have found do not share common start points, so contamination of one source doesn't eliminate all of my choices.

I cross checked on Google Earth, and some of those small streams were visible, some were not.

Don't just rely on your own observations-whoever mapped the area probably spent a lot more time checking things out than you have the time to do.

If you want to be able to make comms to alaska you'll want good positioning.. ie mountain top, and a mobile unit like an Yaesu 857D in a manpack mount, unless you want to have it rig mounted and drive up there.

Then you need to have your family equipped the same, and know how to use it.

That second part, the family.... is the huge rub. Most people, including our own families, are not going to invest the time and effort to be able to ensure that you can communicate under basically any circumstances.

For an easy handheld that can talk for a good ways just to be able to communicate, the Yaesu VX-7R or VX-8 are both good radios.

Just ordered "Country Wisdom and Know-how". The Foxfire series looked very intriguing.

Went to the Yaesu website. Eyes glazed over. Felt like an 18E student looks with one of those damned morse code practice clickers in his hand.

The Foxfire books are great, we've got nearly the whole set, my wife wanted them (man did I marry a good one :) ) She’s read most of them, I’ve not had the time as of yet, but they’re a good reference set.

I have a plan.

Basically, it lays out what each member of my family has to do in the event of a disaster.

We are most likely going to shelter in place, unless evacuation is absolutely necessary for survival.

The list is prioritized, so that we accomplish the most important objectives first. That negates the requirement to have a plan for zero warning, an hour, six hours, etc. I can probably execute the entire plan in 12 hours or less. If I have three hours without dealing with panic buyers, we should be comfortable. It isn't about a scavenger hunt, really. The key is to have the essentials on hand before disaster strikes. Most of the remainder is things to do to prepare in and around the house anyway.

There are a couple of branches, depending on the nature of the disaster. Obviously, if a widfire is expected, you may not want to board up your windows. If a flood is expected, you do not need to clear debris from your yard and push back your vegetation. If it is a local emergency only, help should be coming much more quickly than if it is a regional or national catastrophe. If it is a major national disaster, you could be in for a long wait for help and need deeper preparations. If you wait till a few hours before the hurricane to try and buy a generator, prepare to be disappointed.

At a minimum, you would want to provide for your basic needs (not wants) for two weeks. That means water, food, shelter, fire, sanitation, meds, first aid, comms, defense, fuel, etc.

Does anyone else have either a prioritized list, or a time phased plan they would like to share?

TR

What to Do?
 

Please, share if anyone has more and continue on with this threat. I am currently creating my plans, my bug out bag, and supplies based on the information in these threads. Hopefully mi familia will never need any of this but if we do, we will be far better prepared because all the knowledge shared here. We rode out Ike but and was ill prepared. In much better shape now.

Used TR's comments as a starting point. Attached is my first cut/stab at a SIP Prioritized List. "Timed Phase Plan" is still in draft. This is a point of departure and something I absolutely expect to revise and revisit. Lots of room for "what ifs" and "hey, what abouts...?" IMO a survival plan, be it one to facilitate a bug out or a SIP, must never stop evolving, up to the point it is executed.

Anyway, for what it's worth this is mine. Your comments are welcome with greatest respect and thanks.


Attachment 15539

I like the way you are thinking.

I believe that you are off to a good planning start.

TR

Phased Time Plan for SIP
 

Have attached first cut for a Phased Time Plan, or, a rough timeline to assist in the planning stage to SIP. This is just an opinion and would benefit from continued thought and revision.

I welcome your comments with respect and thanks.


Attachment 15543

Items I Missed in Priorities List
 

I neglected (at least) making mention of alternative cooking systems in the priorities list. I should have included having a Coleman cookstove, or similar cooking system along with a case or two of fuel bottles. A Coleman stove can enable a person hold up in a SIP and cook meals, make coffee, etc. They also allow a person in that mode to continue preserving by smoking (via a stove top smoker) perishable meats, fishes, etc. One other thing I neglected to mention is to use the racks from the stove/refrigerator as drying racks for fruit, if one can arrange to have a good source of sunshine from a window.

Training is another area I failed to comment on, and training to execute a plan (not necessarily a full blown disaster scenario, but some aspects of the tasks) is a mistake.

A lot depends on the season when one is required to SIP. Very many variables exist that one needs to consider when developing a plan, regardless of SIP or bug out. The ones I've tried to articulate are just unique to my own planning, and hopefully provide food for thought to others.

When the crisis passes and civilization returns some will say they went too far and others not far enough. IMO, emergency plans are just like that. Not a lot of middle ground.