Reliable Pistol
 

In my neighborhood we have had such a rash of burglaries night and day and even with people in the house that I have decided to finally buy a gun for shooting people instead of animals.

I do not like to have a loaded gun around but do not mind having a loaded magazine next to an empty gun. I have looked at the specs on almost all of the pistols available and have settled on about 5 that have barrel lengths that suit me and are in 9mm which has a low enough recoil that even I can probably hit a person inside the house several times in a row. I have added a Colt 1911 in 39 Super just out of nostalgia. Double action means nothing to me being as I am so used to single action that I would never use it. Revolvers are too slow to load and I have several already.

What I want to know is only one thing. Which of these is the most reliable and jam free. I do not want a pistol that is finicky and has to constantly have the magazine lips adjusted nor do I want to have to try to clear a stoppage when I most need to shoot. If there is a 4.5 -5.0 inch barrel 9mm that I have not listed then feel to add it to the list.

The pistols under consideration are
Glock 34
Berretta 92
H&K USP Tactical (USP9 SD)
Sig P250
Colt 1911 38 Super”

PM sent. Here's a good link on a Glock 21 torture test LINK I'd personally go with the Glock.

The Springfield XD tactical is also a good weapon.

Sir, I second the vote for glock. It will go bang everytime you want it to. In 9mm I would go with the 19. I had a XD in .40, I sold it in less then 3 months and went back to the glock.

V/r
Anevolution

Not necessarily, I've personally had my dept issued Glock 21 go click no bang twice in 4 years.... both were on the range thank God, bad striker spring both times IIRC, could have been my wicked bad luck/karma, but I never felt great about Glocks after the 2nd time it happened. BTW I am/was extremely anal retentive about cleaning my weapons, I carried a back up Sig 239 in a vest holster as a result. Put thousands of rounds through both my Sigs (220&239) and neither has ever missed a beat.

I’ll always vote Sig (until I find something better) Just my .02 YMMV. (Sig also do good deals direct for Mil/LEOs as well),

And I've got two XD tacticals (9mm & .45) that you can't talk me out of. :p FWIW - I would check out the XDm 9mm, maybe the new 3.8 version, or look into a S&W M&P in 9mm since you seem to have a rationale for your caliber choice. Sorry, I'm (obviously) not a Glock fan. Otherwise a Sig 229, 250 or the USP varient. Why give up magazine capacity in favor of nostalgia with the 1911? I've personally used everything except the M&P and the 250. I've got respected friends who've given me input on them, that's why I'm comfortable with passing the opinion. Good luck.

I've got more experience with the Glocks than anything else

I have the option with my department to carry whatever gun I want and I carry a Glock everyday

Smith and Wesson M&P's are really nice and very reliable. I have one with over 5,000 rounds on it with no issues. I had a G34 and hated it and it's extended slide, the G17 and 19 feel more natural to me, YMMV. The H&K P30 and the P2000 are two more that should be on your list of wonder nines to consider.

Defender968:
Your cleaning habits could have something to do with your issues. Glocks like to be run a bit dryer then other guns and maybe a bit dirtier. You being anal about cleaning and stripping your gun could have played a part in the failure. Getting two bad striker springs after being replaced with oe parts by a glock armor sounds to me like something else is wrong.

V/r
Anevolution

I own a 9mm P250c that I use as my carry pistol. I've put around 1k rounds out of it without a jam. Also, I like that if I want to have a .45 or a .357 sig or any of the aforementioned calibers in a standard size I just have to buy the kit and not a new handgun. So far it carries well and is really light even with all 17 rounds. Mine was a certified pre-own I picked up off of gunbroker.com. If you are considering one check with Youth Shooting Sports Alliance on gunbroker mine was in perfect condition and I only paid $400 for it :D. It's a charity organization auction and they have one up for bidding right now.


T.P.

+1 for the XD
I've been shooting my XD9 religiously for several years and treating it like shit and have never had a problem.

Great choices here...but.
 

My two cents probably aren't worth that much when it comes to pistols but here goes.
Of several 9mms I have the Berretta 92 is near flawlessI say near because it has never failed me. Eats anything I load it forgivingly, accurate, and carries lots of rounds.
My favorite shooter is the Walther P99QC, a little expensive but never has failed and shoots fast, it's .40cal, I've a couple of .45s but my favorire non malfunctioning one is a Ruger P97DC. Also eats what ever I feed it.

I don't own but have fired a Springfield XD .45 of a friends and really like it.
I also like my 1860 Colt cap 'n Ball, but wouldn't defend my home with it even if jesse James robbed banks with it. LOL Dave

With out a doubt I would go with the Glock. Reliability, cost, accuracy, and accessibility for mags and after market parts, you can not beat a Glock. I carry a Glock 19 every day.

I have a Glock 19C I have carried off duty for 12 years now. I have put a few thousand rounds through it in that time and have never had a problem with function or accuracy. It is large enough to use as a service weapon and small enough to conceal under most circumstances.

H&K
 

Sir,
I +1 everyone on the Glock, I love them. But that H&K is the Lexus of handguns IMHO. I own the same one, just in the .45 version. The smoothest firing .45 I have ever owned, so I would imagine the same or better for a 9 MM. Pretty pricey though, and it is important that you always shoot premium/match ammo through it. Kinda like putting unleaded in a mercedes - just doesn't work. And the sights on the tactical are big, so you are pretty limited on the selection of holsters if you want to go concealed. My front sight post sticks out like a shark fin and doesn't fit anything but the Blackhawk drop leg with the jumpable retention strap. Although with the popularity rising I assume manufacturers are building to those specs.

I personally would recommend a Glock 17 for several reasons.

1) They are as plain jane as you can get. And IF you shoot someone what type of weapon you use WILL be ANALyzed and arm chair quarter backed to death several times over

2) 17 rounds per magazine

3) Great reliability


I personally am NOT a glock fan but I do own 3 of them because all of mine work all of the time... I personally do not like them because of the grip angle, trigger over travel, and other mechanical issues that I am nit picky about... but they are like an SKS they just flat work all the time!

Based on what your asking for I would strongly point you towards a Glock 17 it will fit all of your requirements..... plus when it goes to evidence you won't be heart broken that they took your nice HK. ;)

I recently sold a Hk P30 .40cal I had bought for my wife added a few hundred and bought a glock 17 for her and a glock 23c for my self.
I took the G17 to the range and shot a little over 200 rds no problems. Nice gun.

My vote is for Glock as well. I've had a 17 for about 7 years and It has never once had a failure to fire. Id estimate over 25,000 rounds through it and treated like shit.

There are guns that I shoot better with (kimber, hk45) but for reliability I think a glock is pretty solid.

Having done the Range Duty thing in PD for twenty years and millions of rounds down range I have come to the conclusion the Glock 17 is the most reliable pistol on planet for the money. Now I still prefer the 1911s when hand tuned but by the time you ahve one that runs witha Glock 17 for reliability you have over 1250.00 in it.

Now the stopping power of a nine lacks compared to a 40 or 45 so if I was you I would pick up a Glock 22, which is basically a 17 in 40 SxW

http://concealedcarryholsters.org/wp...e-Shootout.pdf

It's more about shot placement...


I watched a guy in Sao Paulo get shot at pointblank range with .45 Black Talons (two shots) in the chest, he looked down, drew his gun and returned fire. :eek: The will to live is pretty incredible.

Koz, its a long time prejudice of mine. Heck shoot one guy witha nine three times in chest and have him walk away and you have it ingrained for life.

I was a victim of the FBI recomendation to use 115 Silver Tips back a coupl of decades ago. LOL Not one got deep enough to do any real damage.

Now obviously shot placment is important but bringing a load is also important. Who here if had a choice would pick getting shot with 45 over a 9mm?

The potential recipients of your rounds vary so much, that the largest caliber you can accurately deliver to the target is the one I would choose...and now have chosen, a 45 ACP (HK of course). A 38+P JHP Speer has done the job for me, decades ago, with the assistance of a partner with like rounds. Was that my choice of caliber..no. Dept policy dictated at that time. Have seen head shots, social shootings, who have tipped over only to get up and continue the social conflict until separated by us peace keepers.

The point is that a stopping/killing shot delivered,in your home, to a criminal is such a crap shoot because of the wide range of the target's ability to handle the shot. Clothing, substance influence, physical characteristics and just plain toughness are just some of the influences as to how a target will fall. With that in mind, a 9mm doesn't do it.

As for the pistol of choice...why choose one that can prefers to be dry, a bit dirty, wet...get one that doesn't care, just runs and is, as they say, is "drop dead reliable", regardless what is costs. Research and comments by the QPs will guide you.

It would depend if I am wearing armor or not :D

I would say Thanks, to everyone for their advice. It seems that a Glock or Springfield XD is going to be a good choice. I really did not know Springfield had such a good reputation.

The Glock 34 has about one inch more of barrel than the Glock 17 which will be helpful for an amateur like me if I put Trijcon sights on it. Also if I ever decide to shoot three gun competition then I have something to play with.

I will go and handle the Glock and XD and see how they feel being as the gun has to point correctly for me or else it is worthless.

If y'all wish to have fun debating caliber you are free to continue that, but I am not into that. I have a S&W 460 for protection in grizzly bear country so I know what stopping power means. For home use, I could go up to a .40 cal and load it light but then I would have to worry about spring rates etc. so it is best for me to just go with the 9mm which is what I can manage accurately.

As afar as shotguns go, I have a lot of them but either it has too be already loaded or you have to fumble around with shells in the dark. I do not wish to have a loaded gun in my home. The whole object here is to have the minimum activity necessary to be fully armed.

Appreciate the information and the best thing is that it comes from people who actually know.

Bob

I've held off commenting because one of my favorites is not on your list.

Figure it's about time..

Smith & Wesson Performance Center weapons are some of the least thought of but highly respected bang sticks available.

I have had many S&W and never had a complaint. I do have a bias to wheel guns, but enjoy the pistols.

As your may be on your way to the LGS, take a look at any of the S&W PC offerings they may have.

Because the PC guns are all limited editions, your LGS may not have a large selection. Sometimes the gun show is the only place to find any.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...category=15701

One reason I like S&W is the lifetime warranty on 3rd gen weapons. This also includes 2nd, 3rd party sales. You do not have to be the ORIGINAL purchaser.

Additionally S&W has options to send your weapon to the PC for tuning and other aftermarket accessorization(sic).

Which brings up another goody. If you purchase a used decon-LEO weapon, you can send it to S&W and they will test and fix, I believe for FREE.. AND do tune-up's for a modest price.

Just another opinion...

A little irony in the tattoo's on the deceased:

What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger

Live By The Gun Die By The Gun

I've carried the same Beretta 92FS for 18 years now. Thousands of rounds have gone down range without one malfunction. The current ammo issue is Ranger SXT which has proven to be very effective. I haven't had to use it on a person myself; however, a couple of terrorist pitbulls went immediately to their 72 (or whatever the currnent numer is) virgins with one shot and a fast drop. I highly recommend it. I'm also hearing very good things about the Sig.

I had a stove pipe on time while shooting a compact Beretta 92. It was with several other rounds being fired, but the rails were dry. They no longer make this version.

That was a very interesting report. If true, it's intriguing that the .40 S&W rounds that the officers fired from about twenty feet only penetrated the assailants body by 1".

*

Consider buying the G35, it has that extra inch over the G22/G17 that you want. The other good thing is you can buy a drop in 9mm barrel from Lone wolf for around a $100. You can also get a drop in barrel for .357sig. Kinda like three guns in one.
I plan on getting the 9mm drop in for my G23.

HTH

I do not believe that the slides are the same for all of those rounds, or all you would need to convert is a barrel.

The 9x19 and the .40/.357 SIG have different case head diameters, and consequently, different breech faces, not to mention slide weight is probably different.

TR

If reliability is your primary criteria then it is difficult to beat the Glock. Assuming you are going to shoot it a few times to get comfortable with it then store it..they have a demonstrated track record of reliabilty with all previous actecdotal problems not withstanding. Caliber is a personal choice but if you are not going to shoot the weapon on a regular basis (assumption) 9mm will give you more opportunities to score muliple hits under stress. Additionally for the Glock, accessories essentially fall out of the sky and are easily purchased with little effort or searching.

I don't believe I saw this mentioned previously in this thread, if I missed it then I apologize. For a night stand home defense pistol...Get a LIGHT on the gun as well. My .02

These were the candidates for the Joint Combat Pistol program:

Smith & Wesson M&P .45
Smith & Wesson SW990L
Smith & Wesson Model 4566 TSW
Smith & Wesson Model 4563 TSW
Springfield Armory XD-45
Ruger P-345
Ruger P90
GLOCK 21
GLOCK 21SF
FN Herstal FNP-45
Heckler & Koch USP 45
Heckler & Koch USP Compact 45
Heckler & Koch HK45
Sig Sauer P220

You will see the M&P and XD on there, as well as the Glock.

I carry HK only ,unless on duty of course-

It is possible to convert a G35 to a 9mm with a barrel, but to get it to run reliably (as far as competitions are concerned) he would need to swap out the extractor and ejector. It may also be necessary to change the guide rod/spring too. Reliability is questionable with the conversion - not the right combo for a HD gun...

TR, I know Lone Wolf and Bar-sto makes the drop in barrels for glock conversions. I don't have first hand experience on how well they work, just hear-say.
I just got done buying some Heinie Straight Eights to replace the factory sights on my G23. My next purchase will be one of the above 9mm drop in barrel ( I have to sneek them in ..... wife...).When I do, I will report back on how well it does of does not work.

99

I had a Lama .380 that would stovepipe with every mag. Never found a way to stop it. Bought a Glock 19, end of problem; I've used it since 1993 with never an issue.

My brother is a firearms instructor at the FBI Firearms Training Unit, Quantico. His suggestion was the Remington Model 870. They equip theirs with open rifle sights, and fire rifled slugs for up to 100 yds. Looking at a 12ga from the wrong end has been known create epiphanies from time to time. I like the comfort of 00 shot like Brush Okie suggested.

My $.02.

RF 1

You missed my point.

The guns are not identical, less the barrels. You can make a .40 a .357 with a barrel swap, and vice versa. I do not think you can do the same with the 9mms. It might fit, but it probably will not run well.

TR

One good thing about Glocks, most ranges that rent guns seem to have just about one of each model for rent. I would strongly recommend renting a few if possible. The Glock grip is a little weird and what you think may fit you best might not be true. My wife and I tried the 17, 21, 22, 26, 30 & 36.

We could shoot all well, but the single stack sub-compact 36 was what we both shot the best. The .45s all were easier shooting for us, felt like more of a gentle push instead of the snappier recoil of the 9s and .40s We both carry the 36 now, but also considering the 21 SF or 35 for 3 gun matches. I was not a fan of the plastic gun before I decided to rent a few and give them a try.

There was a thread on a forum that I can't think of off hand about handgun ammunition and lethality. The guy who was the focus of it was a coroner's investigator for Fulton County(Atlanta, Ga?). He had seen hundreds of shooting victims over the years. He said the one round that consistently produced fatal wounds was the .357 Magnum. He felt the reason for the .357 Mag's lethality was its ability to penetrate. You said you didn't want a loaded weapon in the house but you weren't averse to having a pistol with a mag nearby. I keep a Ruger SS Security Six in .357 Mag with a speed loader nearby. A speed loader is the same as a magazine to me....

I will look for that article. It was very interesting. The most entertaining aspect of the article was the people who thought they knew what they were talking about, arguing with someone who really did know what he was talking about...

This guy did say that if you have your choice, a 12 gauge with slugs is the best option...