Haiti Earthquake
 

A katrina-level challenge for the current administration.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Well, I'm certainly glad the founder and chairman of CBN cleared this one up for us - seems as if it's a hell of a mess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nraknWoes

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin

I guess it was a pretty bad one. 100K feared dead. A 2,000 personnel Marine expeditionary unit on the way to help.

I live in earthquake country and one of my greatest fears is suffering a major one like this.

Is it me??
Has anyone heard of the damage in the Dominican Republic??
Santo Domingo is about 160 miles(not 40) from Port-Au-Prince.

The news seems to have ignored the other half on the island..

:confused::confused:

I noticed that also.. kinda seemed a bit strange.

The Devastating Haiti Earthquake: Questions and Answers

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...ionsandanswers

Latest Earthquakes in the World - Past 7 days

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...quakes_all.php

Fault Line Map

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak.../10/290_20.php

.... Wow. Wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to toss blame at the people who are currently under a pile of rubble. :rolleyes:

The BBC has the following graphic on their site, and it seems to show that the most severe damage was limited to Haiti. (Is it okay to post images? I didn't see anything about it in the rules.)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ake466x412.gif

I was down there back in '95 and it was pretty run down then, to say the least. I had heard it had gotten even worse since then. Damn, I can't imagine how much of a mess that place is after this catastrophe.

Was there with Catholic Charities in 98 and 99 doing immunzation clinics. I was appalled by the people and the country, the corruption was amazing. In the past 5 yrs alone the US has given about a billion in aid and not much has reached the people. World Bank has given much more over time with no results to speak of. Aid groups of varying adgendas have been in country for the past 20 yrs and little has changed. I got the strong impression that a hand out was more important to the populace than a hand up.
YMMV
AM

Concur.

The Haitians who I have known in the US have largely been content to go on welfare upon arrival and stay there. As always, there are some exceptions.

TR

I have heard discussions regarding historically English-type governments vs. French-type governments. There are basically three jurisdictions in the Western Hemisphere that are French based: 1) Haiti; 2) Louisiana; and 3) Quebec. The rest of the Northern part of the Western hemisphere has English-type governments.

You may draw your own conclusions.

Pat Robertson and I don't pray to the same god. The god I pray too doesn't visit untold wrath on a people because they sought to be free. How a "man of god", and I sue that term very loosely, could say on national tv that the people of Haiti brought this on themselves is beyond words.

When I was there. We could not even pay them to unload the free food and Aid from the Docks. They refused to lift a finger. They would not even work to receive free food. They wanted us to unload it and hand it out. They said it was our job. They were arguing this as their Children stood beside them showing clear signs of starvation and Mal-nourishment.
IMO. It's a dead Island not worthy of one ounce of our Sympathy. The US built a state of the art power plant back in the mid 90's. It was built to bring power to Port de Prince. One week after it was up and running and handed over to the Haitians. They looted and stripped it immediately.

Like somebody else...
 

Sounds like the folks who live in Gaza.

I was there in 95 at the house in Petite Goave. As the Sr Charlie, at any given time I had close to 200 local folks working humanitarian projects around the area. Funding through the IOM (another story). Those folks worked their tails off for little next to nothing. They were appreciative of the work, and we were doing good things. At the end of my tour they suprised me with a gift. They all pitched in and the crew actually had a local craftsman make me a rocking chair. It sits in my living room today. They were the exception. We improved the fighting position for the next guy, but you can bet when all was said and done it reverted back to Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

As far as the majority of the population, I can remember it as clear as yesterday - Blanc blanc blanc blanc, bumwe te mange, bumwe te goude... Gimme gimme gimme!

Change of thread,...
 

I brought this over from the 'other' Haiti thread.

"This might seem like a wild idea, but rather than mobilize rescue efforts to Haiti, would it not serve our efforts better if had an exfil plan for the victims?

Setting up camps along the eastern mexico peninsula, south florida, costa rica. This would also inclease travel, access to other resources, raise revenue, family access, or better yet, family provided comfort. Then ship back after stabilization or common infrastructure as been made safe, i.e., water, power, etc."

nice. - or - (with sacrasm) they could see how many can cram onto a floating raft for an exfil. Put the local population on an airplane and they'll scream uncontrollably in terror. It is a wild idea and that plan wouldn't work...most would never go back, and they would wind up driving taxis in NYC. The only reason most don't leave is beacuse they can't or their raft gets picked up or sinks. If they need better resources they could go to the other half of Hispanola...the one that isn't deforested and raped of it's natural resources. :)

O.k., bad idea, you should read what Armymom sent me in an PM. Too funny, but not for public view.

I'm thinking internment camps, somewhere, and perhaps a safer environment for our rescue workers. Send them to France, the mother nation of responsibility.

Hey ALL I said was that Florida is Closed and that you are welcome to put them up at your place. :D:D

Surely you jest in expecting the French to take responsibility for what they created?
They cannot even decide on what cheese to have with thier whine.

No matter my previous comments. It must be horrific to go through this in such a place.
Anderson Cooper is just now talking about how dead people are being picked up by bulldozers and dumped into dump trucks. How people are dumping bodies in old cemetary crypts as many as they can stuff in a cypt. That no record of names being kept and all that. There is not central clearing house for aid groups.
That private groups are trying to coordinate among themselves. It sounds like a huge clusterfuck, typical of the country and such groups. The people are saying that thier government is of no use, and they are looking to the US. Gotta love it, under normal circumstances we are the ogre every third world country loves to hate. But when it all hits the fan, guess whom everyone turns to for aid, to sort it out and to give humanitarian money and aid.

The first US asset in haiti? The USCG cutter forward commanded by Cmdr Diane something.. Sailed out of Gitmo and there at first light. The coasties, as always rock!

France.......brother you might be on to something there!

Perhaps I am a 'sick puppy'- but I think this could potentially be the best thing that has ever happened to Haiti in over 100 years. I doubt the country will be able to realize it. It is in a morass of sorrow from which it may never recover, no matter how much of the world's assets are poured into said morass.

Very true. When tsunami ravaged the largest moslem country in the world, who showed up first at the region hardest hit, the one with separatist movement wanting the establish shariah rule? Was it Kuwait? Iran? Malaysia? Saudi Arabia? Nope, it was the infidel, the great satan instead. This is one of the reasons I'm convinced we are the lesser evil, if not plain straight the good guys. Love your neighbor, even when they spit at your face and occasionally want to kill you.

Well the US forces are already being touted to provide security in Haiti.
Can someone spell "Rome"?

TR, your "one second after" scenario is taking place, sorta kinda.

There was a scenario where a guy in a van came up to the airport a few hours after the quake with sub sandwiches and water. At first the women and children were allowed to get food, then the stronger males pushed them out of the way and when the food was gone, it turned to mild chaos. This was just a few hours after the quake. Imagine what it will be like a week from now. NO food, minimal water.. aid hard to get in due to logistics. Acess from sea to the port is okay, but the road is messed up. Air traffic control is two Coasties with radios on the lawn. Are we good or what??;) Roads messed up. It was suggested that supplies be helo'd to the parts of town that need them due to road problems.

I think that we can all look at this as a case study for when or if the shtf scenarios. There will always be those few who rise to the occasion to lead and organize to inspire others. There will always be those who just give up and expect others to do for them.
YMMV
AM

No matter how much Money we pour into that country. Things will never change...NEVER.

Yep, I once spent a year in Washington, DC, too...I think it was on a Sunday.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Disasters amplify the nature of the civil order that's already there (or isn't there).

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...ex.html?hpt=T1

A case study on the extreme end of the spectrum.
With a reported 80% unemployment rate in country I don't see many locals rising to the occasion.

I think an important step was missed at the beginning.
82nd should have jumped in.

Well,
 

I would contend that, no matter the society, this is only true up to a certain point.

To quote someone more knowledgeable than me

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...ad.php?t=25402

Caught the tail end of the CNN broadcast that said Obama signed some order to allow the existing Haitians a "Stay" on deportation and possibly allowing the Haitians that are in Haiti to come here without the current requirements that had prohibited them in the past.............:confused:

Big Teddy :munchin

A temporary protected status for Haitian nationals who were in the United States as of Tuesday has been designated by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, she announced Friday.

"This is a disaster of historic proportions and this designation will allow eligible Haitian nationals in the United States to continue living and working in our country for the next 18 months," she said.

"Providing a temporary refuge for Haitian nationals who are currently in the United States and whose personal safety would be endangered by returning to Haiti is part of this administration's continuing efforts to support Haiti's recovery."

Napolitano estimated 100,000 to 200,000 Haitian nationals are in the United States illegally. She told reporters the temporary status allows them to stay for 18 months, authorizing them to work and send remittances back to Haiti as the nation "gets back on its feet."

However, she said, Haitians who now attempt to travel to the United States will not be eligible for the temporary status and will be repatriated to Haiti. She added that there have been no signs so far of an increase of Haitian nationals trying to enter the United States after Tuesday's earthquake.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/....us/index.html

Someone once said, "Dominicans come to the US so they can work, Haitians come to the US so they don't have to." Every French speaking country I have been to, sucked.

x/S

security work?
 

Deleted

15 years ago those same adult males were probably the children we had given food to outside our compound, who were themselves rolled by the adult males of that time, who in turn got to repeatedly inspect our butt stocks, and jungle boot treads.

I apologize if I offend anyone but this island nation is the hemorrhoid of the western hemisphere. As many others here have said, these people/this country, in general, has been afforded every opportunity to succeed but chose to sh*t the bed because that didn't require any extra effort. If anything is to be accomplished there, one must first establish and enforce security with an iron fist to crush any belligerence/belligerents. However, I'm sure the administration's ROE will steer as far as possible from that.

As a High school kid in New York my first job was that of a stock boy for a Radio Shack. The manager who hired me was a Haitian.
.... Someone also said that the Jamaicans take all the jobs and the Puerto Ricans steal all the cars.

Instead of aid how 'bout a tax rebate?
 

So, the administration has pledged $100M in aid just to get started...

Given that we are bearing the lions share of the fight against the Islamic assholes, are still recovering from our own hurricane, still paying for our aid to the big tsunami, other earthquake aid around the world (even to countries that hate us, like Iran), etc. etc. ...and given Haiti's demonstrated inability to make any forward progress with all the aid that has been given it to this point... my idea woudl be for the Administration to give that $100 million back to TAXPAYERS and then ask for donations.

If the government has $100M to put into a bottomless pit then I think it needs to go back to the American Taxpayer.

my $0.02.

Agreed.

At the very least, given the state of the American economy and unhappy history of Haiti, the president could make the pledge conditional upon the fulfillment of clear cut bench marks or insist that it be used in fulfillment of an objective that can be achieved. (Such as grants helping Haitians to develop and to enforce safe building codes.)

Is professional Baseball REALLY "work"?

White Man's Burden never stops
 

Jeez, I can't believe we would consider adopting another basket case. Hopefully, US forces will stay on the ships and the smart people in uniform will stand back long enough for the UN to step up - no matter how feeble the international community and the blue hats may be.

But I am getting a bad feeling. I recognize USG desire not to put a military face on humanitarian excusions, but really. Enough "coordinating" and "assessing." Time for ACTION to avert more disaster broadcast live 24/7 on cable news.

Note to SecState: Haitians are asking for Marines, not the State Department.

. . . The administration has faced criticism from the retired U.S. general who led the Katrina response that it was overthinking post-quake Haiti aid distribution, when it should have just pushed it out as faster at risk of it being disorganized.

"The next morning after the earthquake, I assumed there would be airplanes delivering aid," retired Lt. General Russel Honore was cited this week. "What we saw instead was discussion about, 'Well we've got to send an assessment team in to see what the needs are.' And anytime I hear that, my head turns red."

Honore also said he thought the U.S. military and not USAID should have been put in charge of the aid effort, because of its superior logistical and lift resources . . .

. . . Indeed, all over Port-au-Prince, signs begging for help from the Marines have been sprouting. In front of one crushed office building, a typical sign read: "Welcome the U.S. Marine. We need some help. Dead bodies inside." Another read: "U.S. Marines SOS. We need help."

At this point, though, it's unlikely that there will be a large U.S. military presence in Port-au-Prince. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said this weekend that there will be up to 10,000 U.S. forces in Haiti and off its coast by Monday, but only a fraction of them will be on the ground.

"The bulk of them will be on ships," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...703389_pf.html

http://pundita.blogspot.com/2010/01/...tians-are.html

Do you really feel that humanitarian aid today is a continuation of the paternalistic sensibilities of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century imperialism?:confused:

Not emergency humanitarian assistance. But Haiti could become a foreign aid baby if we let it.

For the immediate circumstance, I say let the military do what needs to be done - no more than 30-60 days in country - then get out and send the bill to the UN.