Okay, BHO won. How does this affect SF?
 

I'm 18X bound in May '09. How will an Obama presidency, if at all, affect the SF community in both broad and specific terms? This question is for the QPs.

If I may tack on a more specific question to the OP...

With BHO's proposed military cuts, is there any chance at all that the 18x program would dissolve?

In my 21 years of service I served under both a Rep. and Dem. that cut the military (Bush 41 and Clinton 42). It was the peace dividend!!!

Even then SF grew, as the world was not two superpowers anymore.

While proxy wars and confilicts waned; terrorism, drug cartels and genocide by small countries came to the fore (and remain).

You will have a job, you will probably have equipment, but spending may get tight, that is the congesses job.

The dems failed to fund armor for the bulk of the force and so did the reps when they replaced them.

I venture to say you will deploy and fight more! (possibly with less support)

Colin:

You might want to do some more reading before starting threads.

There are several pertaining to the coming Administration's impact on the military.

As SF goes, I agree with mcarey, but had the pleasure of serving under Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush. The Congress is as big an issue as the POTUS. Can anyone remember Pat Schroeder and Ron Dellums?

The years under Carter were like being in a wasteland. We lost an AC SF Group then, and two RC SF Groups under Clinton. Reagan gave us back 1st Group, GHW Bush 3rd Group, and GW Bush the 4th battalions. Clinton didn't really understand the military, surrounded himself with people who didn't understand us either, and was generally afraid to use us for anything other than PK missions.

The need for SF will not go away, but if the Congress cuts the 25% that they have promised to before rebuilding the post-war military, you will see what it was like under Carter again. The Army budget is largely personnel, as we have less big ticket items than any of the services. You cut 25% and force structure has to be slashed. That could include AC Groups or the 4th battalions.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Agreed
 

I am like The Reaper, in that I also survived the Carter years.
It affects more than just us. It affects the world view and respect. That's why Iran took the hostages and was able to keep for 444 days. Hope conditions never return to that low ebb. Blitz

Hey Now....
 

Back up a couple. I got Nixon and Ford plus the others.

Ford was why we got Carter.

MSM played a part in that one also. Every night was a clip of Ford tripping over something.

Actually, I think Nixon is why we got Carter.

They just made Ford out to be a stooge, which in retrospect, he was not.

TR

MOO--

• TBD based on the world situation :confused:
• SF's fate has historically suffered more from GOs ( :mad: ) than from any particular POTUS...and I assume it will continue to be that way

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Which AC-SFG was lost under Carter?

As I recall, the 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 8th were lost during Nixon's watch.

IIRC, it was First, but I will have to check the dates.

My mistake, it was June 1974.

I remember when Reagan brought it back in 1984.

TR

Early 74
 

Members of the 1st were flowing into the 5th and 7th by early 74. A number of Barracks Rats had just come back and somewhat disheartened by the change of location.

And IIRC, which becomes more difficult daily, the loss of those groups was more a result of Gen "Clank-Clank, I'm a Tank" Creighton Abrams being in the position he was, than RMN.

You are SO RIGHT. Congress cuts funds but the Pentagon "GO's" determine what is cut. Congress only pays the bill. Just like if you cut the HQ6 shopping funds. She is the one that quits paying for the beer and keeps buying the make-up for her. You bitch and she keeps on doing it. Abrams hated SF and only had the conventional outlook.

My concern is that many in the new administration will have no experience with the military whatsoever and SOF in particular and, as a result, will have some really unrealistic expectations as to what is possible, what is not and what is just a plain old fashioned bad idea. These are people who wholeheartedly believe that CT is a law enforcement problem and that all our efforts should be focused on arresting OBL. Lord knows what kind of crap that they will dream up for us to execute. I am heartened by the fact that Mr. Gates may be asked to remain as the SECDEF at least for a while longer.

SFC W

As well as a liability, that could be an asset! IF the right people in the right places get the 'ear' of people who make decisions within the new administration, "our" view could be advanced. It can also work conversely. I hope we have those "right" people!

I can't forget the Carter years; a Vance/Christopher State Department (many stories about that fiasco, right 3/7 guys from that era?). Also, as a Company Commander in the 101st in '77, I pulled up to the post (AAFES) gas station and paid cash to fill up in my jeep. I had troops in the field and couldn't get fuel.

Carter Years
 

Jumps on Ft Bragg were at the near DZs because no fuel for transport.

DZ Party Jeep, Med Jeep and the Chute truck w/trailer. Jumpers walked back to save money.

Ahhh...the Carter years. I was in 1/10th and 1/7th during those years. The 1/10th was 'locked in' as the only game in town for USAREUR and the 7th--thanks to the initiatives of GEN Abrams and COL Healey--was supposed to disappear during that time. However, some very clever and future minded GOs (Vessey and Meyer)--combined with the core of senior SF-oriented leadership (Lutz and Norton and Cincotti)--managed to keep it by playing a funding/manning "shell game" until events overcame the desire of many to see it go away.

One thing during those times, we became very 'tight' in a clannish 'us against the world' way and very good at creative 'alternative funding' to support our training/mission needs. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

I still have the blisters.

I didn't mind no fuel, or training funds, or missions, I minded the spineless way in which the carter administration handeled state sponsored terrorism.

I minded the United States of America looking like a country of cowards and our people held by the iranians for 444 days.

The thought of it just makes me want to puke. blowjob bill clinton was no better, any one of us in uniform would have faced severe punishment for what he did in the oval office. I didn't mind him being an idiot, I minded him being a national/international disgrace. He should have been thrown from the office and jailed.

Team Sergeant