I think the biggest problem is that a significant portion of those 1.6 billion muslims are never going to stop killing in the name of allah until there is only one religion, for 100% of the population of the planet.

Whether we are at war or not is irrelevant. They are, and will be for the forseeable future.

Personally, I am not sure that there is anything we can do about it, other than to try and stop them where we can.

Maybe a muslim Martin Luther will emerge. Unfortunately, he will be considered an apostate by the true believers.

TR

"If one is going to insist that a practitioner of a set of beliefs answer for the history of that set of beliefs, what is to stop others from holding us to the same level of accountability and suspicion?"

Every comment I've made regarding Islam is in reference to its practice today....I only reference its 'history' because that history is as valid today as it was in its time...there is no difference in Islamic jurisprudence.
Muhammad is basically 'worshipped' as the most perfect man and his example is to be emulated......there are no provisions for allowing for antiquity.
David Pearl had his head cut off because Muhammad designated that method of slaughter for captured enemies. The Islamists refer to the Hadith, Sira and Koran when committing ritual murder so as to be 'correct'.
Islamic law is not an abstract.
It is written as to what hand you wipe your ass with, how you blow your nose, if you fart during prayer that prayer is abrogated.
Sharia is drawn from Muhammad's actions/example and law giving.
That a woman is worth half of a man...in court. That it takes 4 witnesses to confirm a rape occurred etc. etc......
This is not some abstract relationship between you and allah....it is a lock step eyes right.

I was thinking the same thing. Martin Luther was considered an apostate in his day. Didn't stop him.;)

Sounds like a good premise for a new Phoenix Program. A Thirty Years War would par things down to a more manageable Crusade.

I thought he was a heretic?

TR

Now that's doin' it SF Style! :lifter

Yep, that too. Along with Galileo, Copernicus, and some notable others. Pretty good company if you ask me ;)

As many of the original posts in this thread noted, we have to continue to search for and root out every facet and tactic they are using. Kinetic response (or even pre-emptive strikes) is only a portion of our playbook, at this time. We need to identify more of these Progressive Muslims and work them further. At the same time, the other options should not be diminished.

The Persian Kingdom is emerging again, at speeds faster than even the Muslims ever imagined, thanks in no part to the current POTUS and his Minions. This is not a recent occurrence, but has been developing for decades. Iran and the MB have well laid out plans for their emergence and believed domination, but they did not factor in such wide spread retaliation from their own kind. For Persians, conflict was not limited to the operation of armies, but was carried on behind the front by Persian agents and partisans, by subversion and sabotage, and by propaganda and indoctrination. We should also identify that there is no history to this cause, it is absolute in their terms and considered current for their way of thinking. What we view on our calendar from a thousand years ago is current to them.

The Phoenix plays a part in Persian history. Iran Air uses it as their logo. MR2 is on to something.

This all has to be done knowing that our own people are working in support of the Muslim creep. Whether it is various levels of our government assisting the Muslim cause, partnering with them in some political show of "Make Friends", or business influences, the approach of getting their own to dilute the spread of Muslim into our governance is paramount. We need to use this to help us defend our nation and way of life.

I've been doing this with a Moroccan at my work. He is a Muslim, but absolutely does not agree with Islam by Force. His family follows the same path, which was nationally recognized. Religious freedom is protected under Moroccan Constitution. What is interesting is he shares that an over whelming majority of his "people" back home feel the same way. Yes, there are growing concerns with the MB there, but the people are working to shut that down. His attending prayer here in America helps push his view onto others, so they can see that it is possible to be less intense in their faith.

A Muslim MLK may never emerge, as the True Believers would claim he is diluting Muhammad’s stature and kill him. Then again, there is so much derisive fighting amongst the Islamic world, we may just need to feed the beast.

What I liked in the Pew Research report is that it breaks down by age, by country, by type, etc... so that the sorting function is more controllable. The idea is not to further alienate and challenge 1.6B people, but use vocabulary and focus on where the best leverage points exist. They vary by region and demographic. Isolating a smaller set seems a better approach to me. 800 million are illiterate, so expecting any nuanced understanding from that segment is probably not going to pan out. It is not a solution, but rather places to chip away and plant new ideas.

I admit, it may be no more than an attempt to drive around a blocked road on the wrong one, but it also may be a decent shortcut as well. And the road is blocked...

While nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer,

nothing is more difficult than to understand him.

- Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky -



Just throwing out my simple observations and opinions to add to the more educated and experienced on the subject.

Almost universally, the most recent acts of terror (worldwide) perpetrated by Muslims (wherever located) express grievances against the West on behalf of all Muslims.

Second, regardless of the nationality or ethnicity of the terrorist involved - the one common denominator for many of the recent attacks was that such acts were perpetrated by devout Muslims - true believers who see the world in black and white - us versus them.

Third, it is not uncommon to hear both leader and foot solider terrorist alike, speak of establishing a Caliphate.

Fourth, the terrorists all express a deep hatred of the West - especially the United States.

As for moderate Muslims managing the relatively "small" percentage of radical Muslims...the radical Muslims are just no fun...they are on a mission from Allah...if your argue with them they may kill you. So who is really driving the bus and how does that bode for an actual reduction in violence?

IMO, all Muslims are certainly not the enemy, but Islam has been at war with the West since its inception. One need merely look at all the seemingly unconnected attacks worldwide by Muslims against non-Muslims. I maintain that the attacks are not random and in fact are connected by one root ideology. At this stage, who is at war with whom might be less important than the West aggressively killing the folks who mean to does us harm (and for the most part they let us know who they are) and the West continue developing, as best we can, our counter to the breeding grounds of terrorism - ignorance, poverty, discontent, unemployment and propaganda. People are dying in the name of Allah...lots of them.

See the link below and scroll down:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2013.htm

Yep

The muslims came within a hair's breadth of overrunning all of Europe at Vienna in 1683.

Less than 100 years before our independence, the horde was at the gates besieging the city when the Poles arrived and saved Europe.

Does anyone think that was the end of it?

TR

Fortunately this was before light bulbs were invented.

:D:D:D:D

Gong!!!