GR,
Answer my query...why do average Muslims within Islamic countries participate in or stand by while their Christian neighbors are killed, raped or burned out.
This is happening in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Sudan etc. etc. It cannot happen in Saudi Arabia because they won't even allow Christians to wear a cross, bring a Bible into the Country....they asked our Chaplains (while we were defending their Country) to remove any non Islamic symbols.
You live in the US, Muslims are a slim minority, go to an Islamic Country and see how Christians are treated.
This persecution of Christians has been going on for a very long time.
Don't give me 'People of the Book' stuff either...that early Meccan period stuff was abrogated and you know it.

All Muslims are not terrorists and all Muslims do not practice aggressive Islam.
Islam is flawed in that Muhammad is 'worshipped' if not directly but in 'fact'.
He is the most perfect human being and to be emulated.....and from this the terrorists spring as Muhammad by his own definition was a terrorist.

Why was every female soldier PW sexually abused? Why not, Muhammad said 'what you take with your right hand'.....and those taken in battle are 'property'...he did it, he condoned it and gave female slaves as booty to his followers.
Taken in an ancient context this was the norm....but in Islam Muhammad is the perfect man and what he did is not taken in any historical context....Al Azhar University and the Imams in SA continually issue Fatwa's based upon what M did then that is applicable now......there is no 'well, that was the attitude long ago, we've 'evolved'.
Raiding the Caravans still takes place today as does mutilation under sharia law....why were many of the victims in Kenya mutilated....sharia allows for mutilation of criminals and enemies.
People of the Book........not my book.

Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it -- Kurt Hofmann.

If evil is inherent within a religious/social conscript how does one kill that except from within?

I get it...it's our fault
 

Weren’t they the pro American capitals loving Muslims we supported. Didn’t we teach them to kill the soviets? Didn’t the corrupt men out of that origination such as UBL take advantage of a war torn poor nation and create a terrorist organization. ITS funny how afghan Muslims during the cold war were the good guys. But now since they spiraled out of control ALL Muslims are bad. It’s not a group which prosecutes its own people to keep them scared for their lives BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that hides in Mosques and Hospitals and schools BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that puts acid on little Muslim girls trying to get to school (GR wrote)

I can respect that fact that GR keeps coming back with his opinion but this is getting old. GR, get a Koran,a Reliance of the Traveler, copy of Milestones and read the damn things. What you are saying is apostasy in the Islamic world, period. You're tenacity is appreciated, however, at this point in the debate you need to have a minimal understanding of YOUR religion and you clearly do not. Web site after web site have been posted here for your benefit which I assume you have not looked at.

I agree with a previous post, if they start blowing up mosques (they being anyone other than muslims) I will be celebrating with a beer....and a pulled pork sandwich.

You raise a very good point there Bro! And that brings me to a discussion I had with 98G this afternoon. Let's consider the possibility that the majority of Muslims do not take the teachings of Islam literally- they are "culturally" Muslim. They want to live their lives in peace and strive for the same things we all do. As a case in point, are all Catholics literal practicing Catholics? No, of course not. Many make life choices that are not in keeping with Catholic doctrine - they are Catholics by "culture". Could the same be true for Muslims? Logic would say yes.

If we accept the notion of "cultural" Muslims, then do they not represent a huge opportunity for us? What I am suggesting is that in this line of thinking "cultural" Muslims can be viewed as potential assets to rise up against the Islamic extremists to quash them with extreme prejudice. Isn't this exactly what we do in SF? Are we missing a force multiplication opportunity here? Maybe we have been looking at this whole issue through the wrong end of telescope?

Let's try out some new thinking on the issue and see where that leads.

I'd say there is some possibility to that except that Muhammad covered that base a long time ago.
Any Muslim that takes the side of a non Muslim over another Muslim commits sin...it is takfir....there is no exclusion for the subject matter.
Any Muslim that chooses non Muslim friends over Muslim friends is committing a sin.
It has to come from within Islam and those Muslims must, in fact, ignore or change their own doctrine.......throw out large elements of the Koran/Sira/Hadith and change their view/concept of Muhammad's actions as 'perfect' under any circumstance.
Fat chance.

core principles
 

When a cultural Catholic suddenly embraces his or her religion they do not blow up innocent (or guilty) people, commit suicide, throw acid on people, etc, etc. This can be said for EVERY other religion with the exception of islam. There is nothing in Christian, Jewish, Buddist doctrine that compels believers to harm, in any way, those that disagree with them. Sure, you can be a pain in the ass and generally unpleasent to be around but you CANNOT kill others, pretty simple rules. Additionally, to answer why there has been no uprising in the muslim religion against these terrorist groups is because they comply with Sharia law, to protest against them would be in direct violation of that law as well as the koran. If you want to do the SF thing, you would convert them to another....any other, religion.

damn
 

Should have just waited for PRB to make his post.

I try to make points, but at the end of the day almost all of you reply to me with "Islam sucks balls, Muhammad can blow my pet fish named Muhammad sucks” I think I have many valid points and they are almost never answered ,so I don’t know what to write anymore . I understand what the general attitude is, and it won’t change. At all. So in conclusion all Muslims are terrorists and all Muslims who aren’t fighting are actually inactive jihadists. We must put all Muslim citizens in internment camps to keep them from turning on us. Also, we must cut foreign aid to prominently Muslim countries because they will use those resources to attack us. Finally we must nuke Mecca to stop this plague known as Islam. And man when the mosques do get blown up I’m going to celebrate by eating a pig … Alive. And call it”Muhammad Gives Great Rim Jobs” (no fatwa’s were issued in the making of this post).
------STILL GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ITS TROOPS
------ WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO TOP 5 HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP OF ALL TIME
------ GIVE RESPECT OUT

GR,
You never addressed any of the comments I made, you only made very general points we've all heard before.
I don't believe you really have an in depth understanding of your own Religion.

If you understood the relationship of the Koran to the Hadith/Sira and how that is interpreted by the gold standard of Islamic jurisprudence (Al Azhar University as an example) you wouldn't have asked some of the questions or made the 'points' you did.

Some of us speak Arabic and have worked in Islamic countries for nigh on to 30 years.
These are not abstract observations.

You are 18. We are only asking you to defend what is written in your Holy Book. You are here for a reason. It's up to you to tell us what that reason is. And, tell us what this means: "Confused young men make the best......"

Pat

GR,
You never addressed any of the comments I made, you only made very general points we've all heard before.
I don't believe you really have an in depth understanding of your own Religion.

If you understood the relationship of the Koran to the Hadith/Sira and how that is interpreted by the gold standard of Islamic jurisprudence (Al Azhar University as an example) you wouldn't have asked some of the questions or made the 'points' you did.

Some of us speak Arabic and have worked in Islamic countries for nigh on to 30 years.
These are not abstract observations. ‘

I guess I don’t have a true understanding. I guess I’m a middle class white boy that doesn’t truly understand what is going on in the world. Most of you have first hand experienced I can only dream about. I’m tired that this is going nowhere. Maybe it’s both.

‘I agree with a previous post, if they start blowing up mosques (they being anyone other than muslims) I will be celebrating with a beer....and a pulled pork sandwich.’
You’re just a plain ignorant. I don’t know what to say anymore but I get it. I truly do.
‘ You are 18. We are only asking you to defend what is written in your Holy Book. You are here for a reason. It's up to you to tell us what that reason is. And, tell us what this means:’Im actually here, because I wanted to be here. No one forced me (not saying you did).I failed, I tired and I failed . I TRIED.I really did .I thought I explained …some-thing but I failed.
‘And, tell us what this means: Confused young men make the best......"
You earned the tab. You tell me
Give all of my respect to Trapper john, you’re the man .Not excluding anyone here even you hacksaw, like you care, you all are truly men among men who deserve the respect of all Americans. And most importantly, thank you. You are the men people should look up to not Kayne West or Lindsey lohans coke addiction .
In the end I sum up my opinion with
'Only idiots simplify to justify stupidity'-GiveRespect (actually quoted myself..kinda weird)

---ALLAH BLESS ALL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ITS TROOPS
---BOXING>MMA
--- GIVE RESPECT OUT

No I didn't. I didn't even try. And I wouldn't if I had it to do over again. I had other plans. I respect these guys as brothers-in-arms as they do me, fly-boys, armor, artillery, and supply. It's the uniform, not the patch or tab.

Buck up! Support us, or join us. Your choice. ;)

Pat

p.s.: I joined the Army when I was 17.

You are absolutely correct, IF this is a static culture. I am questioning that view of Islam as static. Are we not seeing some evidence of changes in the culture today? Doesn't GR represent an example of a Muslim that does not take the tenets of Islam literally and inappropriate today? Didn't Christianity evolve from the days of the Inquisition? Couldn't Islam fracture into different sects just as Christianity did? As I asked earlier, are we missing an opportunity here to exploit and hasten a cultural change? If we continue to view this as a binary in black or white terms doesn't that create a no-win scenario?

Not too many things that I can think of are truly static and certainly not a culture of human beings.;)