Great qoute. Are you aware of a video clip of this one posted anywhere?

Razor,

This just came out today:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313690,00.html

KHARTOUM, Sudan — British teacher Gillian Gibbons was convicted of insulting Islam for letting her pupils name a teddy bear Muhammad and sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation from Sudan, one of her defense lawyers said Thursday.

Ali Mohammed Ajab, of Gibbons' defense team, said she was found guilty of "insulting the faith of Muslims in Sudan" under Article 125 of the Sudanese criminal code, a lighter conviction than the original charge of inciting religious hatred. A charge later confirmed by a judge leaving the closed court session.

"I feel this is very serious and very unfair," he told The Associated Press outside the courtroom. Ajab, who also works for the Khartoum Center for Human Rights, said the issue was raised by "hard-liners who are always trying to make some noise," in an apparent reference to religious conservatives.

Ajab said his center would appeal the verdict, an opinion not shared by Gibbons' employer.

"It's a very fair verdict, she could have had six months and lashes and a fine, and she only got 15 days and deportation," said Robert Boulos of the Unity High School, confirming there would be no appeal. He noted that she would only spend 10 days in prison, having already served five.



This is wretched! This entire episode should really give Americans a wake-up call...Islamic extremists really believe this sh*t, and they want to bring it "to a theater near you."

Sorry sudanese folks, not going for the backward-ass burka look anytime soon...but thanks for playing! :mad:

And to add, I think We Americans have only one body to thank that "the I.E.'s" are not here already...
Our Brave Military.

Holly

Close the school and leave the country.

Let the Sudanese upper class educate their kids elsewhere, if that is their idea of freedom and tolerance.

Good riddance.

TR

I agree. If they want it, they can have it.

I also believe that our government should take a stance against the treatment of Ms. Gibbons as well. The feeling I got from the whole thing is that Ms. Gibbons was, in some of the Sudanese words anyway, an infidel; and it was obvious that they were looking for any excuse to punish the infidel. I imagine an American in that position would be seen the same way (probably even worse). Okay, "if'n that's the way they want it. Well, they gets it."

According to www.usaid.gov, the U.S. has supplied the Sudanese with $2.6 billion for humanitarian aid and reconstruction projects since 2005. Needless to say, we are the largest donor to the Sudan (although not the only ones...European Commission support of 54.3 million Euros for reconstruction is in the works as we speak or has already happened. My Google translator was not very clear on this). I believe we should withhold part or all of that money (especially the amount going to reconstruction...i.e. focusing on governance, health, economic growth, and education) as a statement to them that we will not support a country that supports that kind of treatment against its residents. It won't help Ms. Gibbons now, but it may have an influence on future cases such as this (money and words do make a difference sometimes).

I don't want to hear about Darfur anymore. The next person that mentions this to me (or that Islam is a peaceful religion) will probably not get a sympathetic ear from me. It is apparent that the Sudanese government can take better care of them than we can...one way or another.

Bandy

The problem with Darfur is the government is sponsoring (or at least allowing) the genocide. The issue with Darfur has always been with protecting helpless people from their own government.

This is compounded by the fact that the southern Sudanese who are dying are black Christians while the northern Sudanese who run the government and do the killing are Arab Muslims.

Thats a bit of a simplistic take on the situation, but the point is that the issue of Darfur has never been about helping the Sudanese government, so its not at all just to say "well forget Darfur then!" over this.

I hear you, but $2.6 billion of aid? Also, remember I said we should curtail the reconstruction part of it, not necessarily the humanitarian aid part of it.

Here is where my simplistic "forget Darfur" stance came from. My frustration over the Darfur issue is that, earlier this year, we had people in this country wondering why we weren't doing anything and demanding that our government do something to help the situation in Darfur. Earlier this year, I had people asking me why we weren't doing something in Darfur instead of being the "world police" in Iraq. Today, I realized that "not doing anything" in Darfur equals $2.6 billion. What more do you want?

I thought about it some more this evening, and thought about this scenario. Suppose an abusive husband/father has a wife and two children that he abuses regularly. Say that this person is also a sorry excuse of a worker as well, and won't hold down a job. So, because of his lack of character, his family suffers not only at his hand, but at his lack of work as well. They live in a hovel, little food, probably without adequate heat or plumbing. Further, the wife wants to get away, to have a better life, but just can't find the courage to do so just yet. She stays in the relationship, hoping for someone to help her and the kids somehow. So, do you sneak money to the wife & kids? Do you take them food? Or do you give the sorry excuse of a husband money to rebuild his house, educate him, and keep him healthy (analogous to the reconstruction aid we're talking about); and hope that this makes him a better person so that the effects of his change in character will filter down and help the wife & kids. I should reemphasize my stance that we should curtail the reconstruction aid, while continuing the humanitarian efforts that are going on.

Also, and I mean this from a discussion standpoint and not in a sarcastic way (I'm hear to learn, too), what would you suggest? If we stick with what we're doing now, will the situation at some point turn the corner because of the effort we're giving now? Is there another way (other than withholding or revising our aid to Sudan) that we could effectively show our position against the atrocities purported by the Sudanese government (and have it actually show some teeth as well)?


Bandy

Yep, they're real tolerant people over there, those hard-line Muslims.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314111,00.html

Thousands in Sudan Call for British Teddy Bear Teacher's Execution

Friday , November 30, 2007

AP

KHARTOUM, Sudan —
Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, protested Friday outside the presidential palace in Khartoum, demanding the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation.

They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, though they did not attempt to disrupt the rally. "Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted, and they called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site. Unity High School, which is closer by in central Khartoum, is under heavy security protection.

The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Some of the protesters, who an Associated Press reporter at the scene said numbered as many as 10,000, carried clubs, knives and axes — but not automatic weapons, which some have carried at past government-condoned demonstrations, suggesting Friday's rally was not organized by the government.

During Friday sermons, the Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons, saying she intentionally insulted Islam but he did not call for protests.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.

"This is an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.

Hard-line clerics who hold considerable influence with Sudan's Islamic government, have sought to whip up public anger over the Gibbons' case, calling her actions part of a Western plot to damage Islam. (now we're getting to the point - Bandy)

The conviction of Gibbons was seen as an attempt by the government to appease hard-liners, while trying to avert British anger by giving a relatively light sentence. Gibbons could have received up to 40 lashes, six months in prison and a fine if convicted on the heavier charge of inciting religious hatred.

Still, Britons expressed shock over the conviction. The Foreign Office said it was "extremely disappointed" and Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke with a member of Gibbons' family to convey his regret, his spokeswoman said.

"He set out his concern and the fact that we were doing all we could to secure her release," spokeswoman Emily Hands told reporters.

The case began with a classroom project on animals in September at the private school, which has 750 students from elementary to high school levels, most from wealthy Sudanese Muslim families.

Gibbons had one of her 7-year-old students bring in a teddy bear, then asked the class to name it and they chose the name Muhammad.

Each student then took the teddy bear home to write a diary entry about it, and the entries were compiled into a book with the bear's picture on the cover, titled "My Name is Muhammad," Boulos said.

But an office assistant at the school complained to the Ministry of Education that Gibbons had insulted the prophet by comparing him to an animal or toy.

Most Britons expressed shock at the verdict, alongside hope it would not raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.

"One of the good things is the U.K. Muslims who've condemned the charge as completely out of proportion," said Paul Wishart, 37, a student in London.

Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, accused the Sudanese authorities of "gross overreaction."

"This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities," he said.

The Muslim Public Affairs Committee, a political advocacy group, said the prosecution was "abominable and defies common sense."

Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans, said Gibbons' prosecution and conviction was "an absurdly disproportionate response to what is at worst a cultural faux pas."

Foreign Secretary David Miliband summoned the Sudanese ambassador late Thursday to express Britain's disappointment with the verdict. The Foreign Office said Britain would continue diplomatic efforts to achieve "a swift resolution" to the crisis.

Britain's response — applying diplomatic pressure while extolling ties with Sudan and affirming respect for Islam — had produced mixed results, British commentators concluded.

In an editorial, The Daily Telegraph said Miliband "has tiptoed around the case, avoiding a threat to cut aid and asserting that respect for Islam runs deep in Britain. Given that much of the government's financial support goes to the wretched refugees in Darfur and neighboring Chad, Mr. Miliband's caution is understandable."

Now, however, the newspaper said, Britain should recall its ambassador in Khartoum and impose sanctions on the Sudanese regime.

End Story

Looks to me like the Sudanese Muslims were looking for any excuse they could to make an example of the "infidel" who was only over there to "teach hatred for the Prophet Mohammed".

But, x-factor, I have to admit I was wrong about some of our reconstruction funding (that's what happens when you have knee-jerk reactions). Additional research showed me that the reconstruction money supports Sudan's Peoples Liberation Movement (an organization supporting democracy in Sudan). To withdraw funding would be to take the support away from the people that are fighting against the intolerance of the Khartoum-based government. I still think that sanctions against the Khartoum-based government are appropriate, however.

Reading and learning more.

Bandy

What do I think we should do about Darfur?

Initial Steps
- Sanctions on the Sudanese government
- Increased pressure on Chinese for supporting the Sudanese government
- Continued humanitarian aid to the south of the country
- Support to the African Union force to protect the refugee areas

If those don't garner results...
- Special operations to hunt down any janjaweed found within X miles of effected areas
- Embargo non-humanitarian commerce to and from Sudan (ie seizing Sudanese oil shipments to China)

Last resort...
- Support to partition the country (along the East Timor model)

x-factor,

I'm with you, but we have already imposed sanctions against the Sudanese Government. The problem is that we aren't following it. I think it's important to note that all of the things described below happened in 1997 & 1998, and that a relationship between Bin Laden & Sudan was suspected even then. In spite of that, lobbyists managed to stop the sanction's effect by exempting the most profitable Sudanes export: gum arabic.

http://www.american.edu/TED/gumarab.htm

U.S. Sanctions Against the Sudan

1. The Issue
In late 1997, the US Congress passed into law a bill that placed economic sanctions on the country of Sudan. The United States decided to punish the Sudanese government, which the State Department declared is a "sponsor of terrorism and a relentless oppressor of its minority Christian population." The original bill was meant to terminate all commercial activities between the two countries, however, this did not come to fruition. Though the Sudanese government has no active lobby in this country, while the bill made its way through committee, several lobbying groups made a sudden appearance and opposed outright passage of the bill. They did not oppose the sanctions as a whole, they took issue on the possible sanction of only one product, gum arabic.

2. Description
A substance that very few are aware of, but one that almost all Americans have come in contact with. Gum arabic, a derivative of the acacia tree, is an important ingredient in various products ranging from soda and candy to pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic's applications are wide spread, some typical applications are acting as an emulsifier, flavoring agent, and thickener in both food and pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic is also used in the newspaper and magazine printing process, allowing ink to better stick to the paper while keeping it from smearing, as well as protecting the printing plates from oxidation.

Gum arabic is used by a number of industries. When the companies that rely on it heavily realized that their primary source of gum arabic was about to be cut off, the lobbying groups that represent those US companies sprung into action – Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, and Mexico also export gum arabic, but Sudan is by far the largest exporter. The result of the lobbying efforts was an exemption placed on gum arabic allowing companies to apply for a license which permits them to import gum arabic from Sudan.

In August 1998, the attention of Congress was again drawn to the economic sanctions placed on Sudan, due to an alleged relation of suspected terrorist financier, Osama bin Laden, to many Sudanese companies - including the Gum Arabic Company, one of the leading exporters of gum in Sudan. However, most US companies claim that if there is indeed a relationship between Sudanese gum arabic exporters and Mr. bin Laden, they will cease all trade relations with those companies.

The reason why there is such a flap over gum arabic is because it is plentiful in Sudan; in fact gum arabic exports from Sudan compose 70 to 90 percent of the world's supply. The US alone imports 4,000 to 5,000 tons of gum arabic from Sudan, approximately US$9 million a year. In 1995, Sudan exported about US$54 million of gum arabic – about 11 percent of its total exports that year.

End Link Text

It sounds like we'll need to move on to Step 2 through Step 4 right off the bat.


Bandy

I propose a different approach to dafar and the sudanese people;

-Immediately cut off all aid and inform the world we’re doing so.

-Demand the middle eastern predominately muslim countries to get off their islamic asses and stop the islamic violence/killing.

-If that does not get quick results send in Special Operations to kill every member of the Sudanese government and anyone caught consulting/consorting with them. One should not attempt to negotiate with rabid dogs.

Notice I didn’t say capture/kill. I’m sick and f***ing tired of “us” being used to hunt the friggin henchmen, lets just kill those giving the orders and stop playing games with any government that advocates/supports/encourages genocide. Yes, I know it will never happen, American politics, left wing liberals, MSM will ensure we send a kinder more gentle message is sent to those wonderful islamic Nazis bent on killing everything non-muslim.

jimmy carter and jesse jackson, you’re needed in sudan immediately!

You forgot somebody!
 

Al Sharpton!...you forgot Al Sharpton!:D

TS,

Sir, Well said!

Someone far smarter than me could debate the pro's cand con's of this idea, but it sounds like it would work, no holds barred.

Also, could You run for President?...if there's still time to file?:lifter

Holly

...And I'd be happy to point them out for anyone looking for a pfffft.

The real power within the GoS isn't President Bashir, but rather a private interest section of security officers. China is also a contributing plague. China buys roughly 60 percent of the oil produced in Sudan, and supplies arms to the government to protect Chinese oil interests (And guess who has been sitting on the oil pipeline routes and drilling areas--until it is time to kill them and burn the village).

Then your militias are somewhat flavor of the week. Arab militias in the South often have had a tactical relationship with the government, whereas those of the North have a more ideological Muslim drive and belief that land is ordained to believers of Islam. GoS uses it as a constant mobilizer. Militia fighters come from a wide variety of backgrounds with no centralized motivation.

Then there are the over 60 armed rebel groups, in South Sudan alone, with the majority constituting splinter groups. Similar to the Janjaweed militias, operational autonomy creates rogue actions of personal interest over the interests and ideology of a greater cause.

A huge difficulty with addressing the situation is that reports have stated an increase of rebel committed human rights infringements over the last 2 years. This seriously blends the landscape and masks targeting. Rebel and militia groups, alike, are loosely organized in small mobile groups and typically do not hold territory. Janjaweed militias continue to operate with full impunity. All are becoming more difficult to control and disarm.

Rebel group, JEM, has a stronger and well honed ideology but lacks the military prowess of their “peer” rebel groups. The flip side is SPLM/A and SLA with greater military capabilities but lack an ideological basis to direct current struggles and to maintain functional and accountable systems of leadership. Militarist ideology and racism has overwhelmed the sight of their prior social grievances and political struggle against government controls. For all involved, initial causes of conflict have diminished being replaced by abstract ideological ethnicity becoming the active material and social force. Identity and ideology have been used to mobilize support for government, militia, and rebel interests.

So the whole damn place is whackamole FUBAR and largely out of control of GoS. But I'm not opposed to starting there for kicks and giggles.

Real progress
 

Fred Thompson for President
TS for SecDef!

Malaysia's muslims are having huge problems with the ethnic indians (tamils and hindu's) by tearing down temples (98 at last count) and a major riot two weeks ago in the center of Kuala Lumpur with 40,000 people protesting the way they were being treated..

Its all going south in this path of the world...