Not dismissing this material. People have been working iron for about three thousand years to get it to this point so not ready to say Liquidmetal won't have knife applications.
Keep us posted, please.

Bill, sounds like it's time for the Troll to visit "the Chapel of Our Lady of the Edged Weapons" again soon... if only to see you working the new steel. Colorado Low-Cal knifemaker fuel will be provided (and chocolate for Mrs. H).

I have read through this thread a couple of times as I have many of the threads in the Edged Weapons forum where I have been lurking for a while. I followed Mr. Harsey here from a link in his signature line on another forum IIRC. I have learned much here and know that my proper lane is one from which I should read much and post little. However, I'm curious about steels like H-1 that Spyderco is using for their maritime-application knives. It makes perfect sense that for such applications that one may need more than just "stainless" properties, i.e., real corrosion resistance. However, I've noticed that they are using H-1 on their incarnation of the Warrior and on a knife called the Jumpmaster.

My question to Bill, The Reaper, Sal, and other SMEs here is this: What are the pros and cons for using H-1 and similar alloys for general-purpose blades. What would one be giving up in exchange for "rust-proof"?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback and for being gentle with me as a first-time poster on this forum.

this from Spyderco's web page on the Aqua Salt:
"Whether sporting or laboring in saltwater two features rate highly in choosing a fixed blade utility knife, reliable cutting performance and the knife’s ability to remain rust free without maintenance. The knife industry toyed unsuccessfully with non-rusting steels for years until two years ago when Spyderco started manufacturing blades using an alloy called H-1. H1 is precipitation-hardened steel, utilizing .1% nitrogen instead of carbon. Carbon is the component in steel that makes the blade hard and allows it to hold an edge. Carbon also reacts to chloride, making rust. With nitrogen replacing the carbon; hardness and edge retention are realized but nitrogen doesn’t react to chloride so it physically cannot rust. "

I'm not smart enough to know the steel science so I just take what the smart guys like Mr. Harsey say and run with it

I just got a sample of a "powder metallurgy" version of BG-42 from Carpenter... :cool:

I hate you

:boohoo





why this time?

cause you got some cool new steel to work with

Want to make our collab out of it?



Just to keep in the materials topic. I have been working with the steel geeks at Carpenter Technologies for about a year now.

They do science and I try to break their stuff. It's pretty fun, me in community collage tell the PHDs what needs to happen! (I totally make 23% of my numbers up on the spot.)

Anyway, they have a great steel called CTS-XHP that I have really taken a liking too! Easy to work with, for the maker and the user, cuts great, resists stains.

As Mr Bill can attest too it's pretty tough, he tried to break my XHP test knife at Blade show, but ended up just breaking a table.

Now they are trying to refine other steels out there, thus the Powdered 42 that Ken is so jealous of.

I can post more info on the Carpenter steels if there is interest, or I can start a new thread about it, if that is better.

Let me know what you guys would like.

Thanks :munchin

New steel
 

Yeah, I'd like to know more about it!!!

Don't cry on the steel... we don't know exactly how stain resistant it is yet and the collaboration might have polka dots. :D

Les,
Please keep us posted on the Carpenter Steels.

It might be best if you started a new thread for the Carpenter steels as this could get complicated all on it's own.

The BG-42 steel was what Bob Loveless used for his tough use knives. I would love to see the working results of that alloy in a particle metal steel.

oh yeah, they don't make tables like they used to. :D

Mr. Harsey,

I was hoping you could divulge on the general heat treatment and sharpening process that you use in shop.

As I've read time and time again, the heat treatment process is seemingly just as important as the candidate material that you choose to work with. Through the little that I've learned concerning the process as a whole, its never been clear as to the chronological steps during heat treatment; I know that its standard to twice temper the material, as well as annealing and quenching, but in what order do these take place?

Secondly, I'm curious as to the sharpening parameters when producing a knife. I'm guessing that the strength of the metal, the size of the carbides, and the geometry play a roll in the final dimensions of the cutting edge, how is this determined?

SF med, I made a test knife out of this steel about 3 months ago and did some extensive testing for about a week. Cardboard slicing, over 1,000 slices, crossgrain batoning in wood knots, 100 push cuts in 5/8" diameter manila rope, also push cut through a 591 page Northern Tool catalog and other wood work such as whittling and batoning through seasoned oak. Never sharpened the knife and the edge was still very serviceable. After I was finished, I did resharpen.
Since then, I have been using as much as possible over the last three months. Just recently I gutted, skinned and butchered three whitetail deer using the knife. Even though it didn't need it, I did touch up the edge with my Schrade Honesteel. Edge holding and edge strength is exceptional.
Scott

Scott.... Bill has asked me to try and break some of his designs... I'd be more than happy to try and break a knife for you also... :D

LOL, I appreciate the offer. :D There are many of my blades in the hands of our military's finest warriors.
Scott

knifes and hatchetts
 

I have made good knives and threw away about as many as I have made. I mostly use the stock removal style. How ever I have hammered out a few.
The metal I have used most often is saw mill blades. Which is usally L-6 high carbon steel. I am making 2 now out of a kyser blade that the handle broke on. I have 10 or so blanks I have already ground out. I usally harden the knives in oil and then draw them back to temper. I like for the handles to be a little softer than the blades because the steel is so hard to drill. I am dyslexic
so please forgive my spelling.
I have made knives for people that drew out what they wanted. I also make hatchets out of t-500 boiler plate. My hatchets are very tough and do not bend or brake. I usally harden knives to 56 to 61 Rockwell hardness and hatchets to 54 to 58 . I do not sell knives but will trade for something else. If I buy my steel from the knife makers supply , I will charge for the steel's cost and I also put German silver on the handles. I do not care for stainless steel knives, they just will not sharpen like high carbon steel. But carbon steel will rust. I mirrow polish the blades. I have though about adonozing the blades but iI like them shiney . I do hope I have not trepased by making this reply. I am in my 60's and would love to pass along what I had to gleen very hard for. An old man named Skagel started making hand made knives and they were sent to G.I. during W.W.II he did not charge for them but they were highly prized by all who received them.
I do not buy or collect knives. I am a Fox Fire person and Fox Fire 1 is my favorite book. De Opresso Liber

CPM-S-30V versus CPM-S-35VN. Can someone compare and contrast? :munchin

The chemical composition of the two steels are slightly different.

The higher Vanadium content of S30V causes the steel to form more vanadium carbides, giving the steel higher wear resistance, but making the steel harder to work, and leaves little possibility for putting a mirror finish on a blade made of S30V.

The slightly lower Vanadium content of S35VN makes the steel easier to grind, drill, mill, and polish, and the addition of Niobium (formerly known as Columbian/Columbium) prevents sacrificing a significant measure of wear resistance, while making the steel more versatile.

So to boil it down, S35VN is easier to work, less prone to micro-chipping at higher hardness, and has only slightly less wear resistance than S30V. That's where my knowledge ends on the subject.

The niobium in S35VN also helps give it a finer grain structure.

Bottom line on S35VN: Tougher and better wear resistance than S30V. And from my personal experiences, better corrosion resistance, despite having the same amount of chromium, and despite the data sheet claiming it is the same for both steels.

In my opinion, S35 is the steel that S30 should have been. It's crazy how just a little tweak in the chemistry can make such a big difference.

Here, data sheet for S35: http://www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataS...VNrev12010.pdf

Sorry I did not read entire thread.

Night Stalker, Have you read this entire thread?

No I did not Bill I'm sorry. I have a lot of trouble concentrating and focus. I've asked the Team SGT to remove my account. The last thing I want to do is offend or upset anyone. All do respect to all of you.

Night Stalker,
I wasn't asking you to leave, just hoping you'd read post no 11 (I think).

Hey Thank you very much Bill that helped a lot. I was going to use brownells Templique.
On the other issue I think I have been jumping into threads where I should not be making a statement. I been having a pretty tuff time. My pain-attention span is shot.

I just finished reading all 180+ posts and nowhere on the internet will you find more applicable information compiled in one place! Awesome job Bill!

I'd like to chime in and talk briefly about the temper and how important it is. But first put into perspective the HRC # thrown around. Imagine a dial scale that reads 0 to 100. Similar to Celsius where 100 boils and 0 freezes, 100 on the Rockwell is equivalent to the hardness of a diamond, and 0 is just plain air.
As Bill has spoke about so eloquently, hard is not necessarily good. When a knife is quenched in either oil or air, it's at its hardest the chemical composition will allow. This is not a good thing because it's very brittle. Think of Ceramic or marble, they are very hard but hit them with a hammer and they will fracture. The same WILL happen to a blade, I've lost a few to loose fingers on the floor and I'm sure Bill has lost a few too. LOL
Thus comes the temper. If not done correctly you will be left with a brittle knife, or one that will bend on you and not flex back. The temper adds some ductility and adds "toughness". Unfortunately there are no scales that I know of that can read that. Therefore, you should ALWAYS use the manufactures recommendations on what temperature to use, for how long, and how many times. The Crucible website is a great source for this information.
Imagine a leaf spring or coil spring in a vehicle. It holds the weight of the car for it's entire life. It bends, contorts, springs and always goes back to it's original form. Has anyone tried to drill a leaf spring? How about the frame of the car? I challenge anyone to take a drill bit and give it a shot. Second thought, don't bother, you will just dull the bit. :) That is a direct result of car manufacturers figuring out how to heat treat a high carbon steel and temper it so it has that ductility.
Last word on Temper. Has anyone "Lost their temper"? That term was coined years ago by blacksmiths when a user of a dagger or knife he made came back with an issue. His first thought would be "Must of lost it's temper" or "Snapped". Thus when we get so mad and snap, we "lose out temper". A temper CAN be lost during the knifes life by a few bad practices. One being sharpening. If you are using any type of powered machine being a dry stone, belt, ect.. you can very easily create enough heat to pull the temper out and ruin that knife edge. Another mistake knife makers do is coat their knives with Duracoat, Ceracoat, or Powder coat not knowing how that "bake" will affect the temper. The above practices are legitimate and create either a nice ascetic appearance, or can prevent rust on a hi-carbon steel as long as you work that into your Temper. Don't take the knife to a higher temperature than it was tempered at or... you guessed it.
OK Bill, please make corrections LOL, you know I'm thick skinned.

Damn, you learn something new everyday! (Bill never told us that.....)

TCT_Knives,
Thank you. I never knew about the origin of "losing temper", I'd thought that was just something learned naturally while working in the woods logging.

So when the Smith takes the badly tempered blade from the owner and melts it down to make a new knife would that be considered a "Tantrum" ?

Then the owner then combines the two and has a "Temper Tantrum" thus acts like a child.

I'm still learning in the area of edged weapons.
Especially the steel they are made from.

I'm looking at a knife from Bark River.Bravo 1.5 s45v/Cru

:munchin:munchin