1. If you're a wannabe you should be humping what you are going to hump in school - Alice. Put a zipper around the bottom and a pouch on the lid. Leave the noisy pussy pads at home and move out.

2. If you only take that fancy ruck and it breaks you are f***ed. You can get new parts for Alice anywhere (including Camp MacKall...they don't have parts for that other shit). Save your money and tear up the Army's gear instead of your own.

3. If you deploy with multiple rucks you are using extra space that would be better used for a couple cases of beverages.

4. *Stepping back into Team Sergeant role: Don't show up to the teamroom with a bunch of REI ninja gear to pile on top of the already huge mountain of commercial shit we don't use. We will give you literally everything you will need to survive and thrive. Bring in your issued shit, PT and hygeine gear only. Leave the rest of it at home!

5. Having a big green tick on your back sucks regardless who made it. 110 lbs is 110 lbs...

Blitz, sorry for confusing post. I was talking about new guys period not once individual is proven and passed what ever tests given.

Utah Bob,

You wouldn't happen to have an extra kidney pad for that 1942 Mountain Ruck laying around??? I found one in a surplus store a couple of years ago, minus the waist pad, but still in good shape, I believe it's dated 1943.

Stras

An update on my modded ALICE rucksack. I took it to IRAQ and left the MOLLE stuff behind except for the MOLLE waist pack.

The KIFARU Extreme Top Lid (XTL) proved to be very useful. I used it all the time to store quick needed items. Well worth the expense. The large ALICE was almost too big. I tended to pack on the light side (with body armor you have a lot a weight already) and not fill it to the max. My bedroll was the ACU bivy sack (good piece of gear) and a poncho liner. I kept these in the stuff sack that Willie added to the bottom of my ALICE ruck. Having a carry handle sewn in the top of the ruck was another useful mod. Highly recommended.

As to colors that were used on gear in Iraq, it was a mix of OD and ACU. Occasionally you would see someone with coyote brown stuff. 10th GRP, 5th GRP & the SEAL teams all had mixed colors (at least the teams I worked with did). Marines were pretty standard with brown but you did see an occasional OD ALICE in the mix. Air Force personnel didn’t seem to have any rucks…:D.

Regular units had a mix of gear as well. Many units were backfilled with reserve soldiers (we had a number of support soldiers from the 104th Div) so mixed gear was/is the norm.

I saw a lot of soldiers using ALICE packs, most by choice. The MOLLE assault pack was used everywhere and the MOLLE main ruck was seen on occasion but not as often as you would expect.

I was in the TAJI/Baghdad area and these comments reflect what I saw. Other areas could have been different. Before buying any gear, check with your TS, XO, or CDR. Not on a team yet? Wait and just use what is issued to you.

What would I take if I were to deploy tomorrow? Without a doubt I’d take my modded ALICE with the KIFARU top lid.

I expect they've all just about turned into dust by now.;)
Except for those damn skis!:D

ALICE lage Rucksack on MOLLE II Frame
 

I've been at Ft. Bragg for my reserve Annual Training and decided to have Willie add a couple of sliders to my external pocket zippers on my ALICE large rucksack.

We got talking about frames and Willie told me he could add straps to the back of the ALICE large pack so that you can mount it on a MOLLE II frame.

I had Willie do the mod and I put it on a new MOLLE II frame that I got at Clothing Sales. Works perfectly!! Cost was $12.50. You can still use the ALICE frame if you like; the mod does not alter the ALICE mounting system.

So if you don’t like the ALICE frame and like the MOLLE II frame you can use the ALICE large rucksack with a MOLLE II frame.

(Willie works out of General Jackson's on Yadkin Road in Fayetteville NC).

Aoresteen, Do you know if I can mail my ruck to Willie for him to mod my ruck? Im thinking of stealing your XTL/ ALICE idea...

Also, does anyone know of a solution for a noisy (creaky) waist pad and shoulder straps on a MOLLE II frame. It's been driving me nuts this entire tour and I gotta get it fixed as soon as I get home. I was thinking tubular webbing to replace to original attachment straps, because it seems softer but with the similar loadbearing. Do you guys have any ideas or recommendations?

SSG

Has anyone tried or had their hands on the Mystery Ranch 3-Day Assault Pack? I need to pick up a good day pack that I can convert from laptop mode to weekend backpacking mode. I was thinking in the 2000 cu-in neighborhood, the T.H.E. Pack looks pretty good as well.

On a side note, Mystery Ranch is looking for photographs of their tactical gear for their new website.

Money is not a problem because work is buying it. I am okay with having a larger EDC pack because I am large too. :D

Most days I will be carrying two laptops, 17" Macbook Pro and 17" Dell. I also carry a bunch of normal computer nerd stuff like books and cd's. When I travel I want to be able to use the same pack but add in a change of clothes and still be able to fit it in the overhead. (Although most of my travel these days is driving to Tampa or Ft. Bragg, but I digress) I'm not too worried about the laptops having separate padding.

When I get to go day-hiking I just have the usual stuff plus kid stuff and wife stuff. Nothing special there. I was really wondering how the 3-zip feature works, or doesn't work on the Mystery Ranch stuff.

The consensus from this thread and others seem to point out that the MOLLE sucks for one reason or another. Having said that, for those who have humped 70lbs+ on both ALICE and MOLLE, would rucking skills with MOLLE transfer to one with ALICE?

Background:
Point noted. I won't get any rucks issued and as the civvie Kelty pack is starting to disintegrate, I'm looking for a military-issue ruck. I get a good deal for $40 on a slightly-used MOLLE ruck and frame, whereas I'd spend $70 and up for an ALICE. As much as possible, I'd like to save $$$ for extra boots.

Lungs and legs would get the same workout. Putting one foot in front of the other skills would be the same. Lower back stress would be slightly different due to the fact that only the big green tick rides like the big green tick. Is it a deal breaker? ... I don't know. May or ma not be for you. Chafing points (kidney pad) etc. would be different between the two...so is how they feel on your shoulders.

General fitness and I'd say both are equal. Training for something specific where large ALICE w/ LC-1 frame is the standard, then I would (and did) get that. If you can't/won't , does it doom you to automatic failure? Of course not... what you have between your ears and in your gut are the biggest factors in success or failure in many endevors.

I'm sure that didn't help.:D

That was extremely helpful to make an informed decision. Thank you.

Frostfire,
I found a decent used large ALICE and frame on ebay for $40 shipped. I had to keep looking for a couple of weeks but they are there quite often. Also, I replaced the back pad with some new padding as the padding was well used.

Sidenote: I found Wellco ripple soles for $49.97 at Sportsman's Guide. (I remember Warrior Mentor mentioning ripple soles in Get Selected). type www then sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/mens-wellco-mil-spec-army-ripple-tw-tactical-boots-tan.aspx?a=545711

I have used both the MOLLE II and the ALICE packs. Now I dont have alot of use with either, but I have both. I first got the MOLLE ruck. Its very nice, but I've only had about 75lbs in it total. Haven't cracked it, yet. Its very comfortable, but i'm a little bit small for the frame ( it's more for a man around 6ft tall, and not 5-6).

The ALICE when I first used it, I hated because of the horrible straps. But the unit I train with requires us to use them. So I got a new ALICE off ebay, and got the MOLLE straps and kidney belt and fit them to the ruck ( with some modifications; very minor) and I tell you what its super sweet! Best ruck combo as far as feel and size. Its excellent. And you can jump with it too ( why the unit wont allow us to use the plastic frame MOLLE) - Roger

FF, FWIW, there are a lot of civilian packs/rucks out there that will last years longer than a Kelty but are considerably more comfortable than either an ALICE or a MOLLE. Keep in mind that much of the conversation here is constrained by the idea that there are limits based on the unit/school or the operating environment. For a civvie trip you don't have those limits. I would highly recommend something made by Gregory, Osprey, or Arc'teryx both for comfort and durability over the Kelty or ALICE/MOLLE options. I think you would be much happier.

My .02

Thank you for the input, fstbk272. You're the first who seems to prefer MOLLE to ALICE. If you can post a pic of that modification, that'd be great. I finally found used Alice for $29.97 with frame included in a local surplus store. Plenty of them, too. Anyone interested, I'll PM the place. As horrible as the straps are, it's better than the Kelty which already lost its kidney belt so all the weight are on my shoulders all the time and the bottom digs to my lower back.

NoRoadtrippin, it's definitely not for civvie trip. I'm working on getting rucking (with all the constraints) into second nature, so when opportunity presents itself, I will be ready.

Rucksacks
 

I don't know how many ton's the ole mountain would hold!
During Branch FTX at Pisgah, NC DOT put me on the scale's and issued me an over weight ticket.

Now beat that lie!!

BMT

Personally I never had a problem with either type of ruck. In my opinion it's all in adjusting and wearing the ruck properly (using the waist belt instead of shoulder straps to carry the weight). I'm not sure if this is what he did, but this is what I did, and it works great:

http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...t=47472&page=2

I've been using the new IDF issue LAW bag. Internal frame, and can hold 120+ pnds with enough room for anything I could need and enough zippers to get at your things from multiple sides. Rucked over mountains for days with it and have nothing bad to say about them. I havn't been able to find places that sell them online though, amazing bags. If anyone knows a place to get a spare please let me know!

Side note: (I know its the wrong place to post it, but as long as I'm writing): I'm comfortable enough in my training to start rucking with a LG ALICE pack, when I get to SFAS will mods such as mixing and matching with MOLLE straps be tolerated? Or does it have to be ALICE through and through?

Appreciate the help.

Call me old-fashioned...

osprey 35 atmos

Anyone here familiar with it, or can offer me opinions.

I have tried one, the medium fits me perfectly. It has a camelback and ventilation. Both are important to me here in florida. I had never really thought about this whole thing a whole lot. But am doing a lot of walking lately and now find myself looking at doing the Fla Trail in the late fall. So I was up at Bill Jackson's looking at packs. Women's packs just are uncomfortable, this one seemed to fit my bill..but I wanted to ask the 'experts' here.
AM

Zonie,that just makes my day!..........;)

Big Teddy ;)

When you get to SFAS you will be issued gear (MOLLE ruck and LBV included) from the bins at CIF.

Crip

Awwwwwwww . . . She's Bee-you-tee-full!

The hell with that! If I need 120+ pounds then I need a vehicle or we need to rethink the re-suppy plan. Maybe there's a good reason not to make everything as big as possible or to be able to load out every damn thing.
The solution doesn't alway have to be "More Stuff".

Thanks, Teddy! I still "hump" with it! Dozer, I know "she" is beautiful! My point is/was that THAT is what Uncle Sam/Mother Army gives you - deal with it!I

It isn't about the greatest equipment, it is about doing the best you can with what you have. If you constantly hump the best ruck - but have to hump something of lesser quality - can you? Suck it up! Deal with it! SF needs people who are flexible and can adapt. If you have to have "thus and so" - it is my opinion that you are wasting everyone's time.

I would hardly call myself an "expert" but Osprey packs are highly regarded in the backpacking world. Fit is very important and if that one works for you I don't think you can go wrong with it. I have an old Osprey that I'm very happy with.

The downside to that pack is that it's pretty small. If you're planning on doing more than a dayhike or maybe an overnight stay you'll probably wish you had something larger.

Amazingly well said. Back in Delta Co. They lived by the term "death before dismount"

They always laughed at the guys in other anti-armor and cavscout units that had 4 rucks mounted on the outside of there trucks and they would be packed as full as could be.

Ruck related question:

When an ALICE frame pops a rivet what's the best method of repair? A new rivet? Nut and bolt?

Ek

Nut, bolt, and 2 washers (one each side) and a lil lock-tite...

Crip

a small locking nut

Or a small locking nut...

Spotlight Ranger, lol.

LAW BAG
 

I found a picture of the bag for all who were interested. I'm trying to find something similar for civilian use, mystery ranch has some options that look appealing/ similar. There are several features that I am looking for though, if someone thinks they can help please send me a PM and I will explain.

Thanks,
Shock

A stainless steel nut & bolt.

+1 :D

I've humped the ALICE (large and medium), LOWE, CPF90, SPEARS and Blackhawk SOF. Never got issued the MOLLE. For winter warefare and mountains prefer the LOWE/SPF90 (resitched), Maritime Operations (F470, diving and surface swimming) hands down the ALICE. For sea kayaking prefer an internal frame but haven't found the right one yet. SPEARS just too heavy to start with. Got the Blackhawk SOF but didn't do much humping with it as it was usually mounted outside the DMV.

Average weight during my teams Desert Storm SR mission was 120-130 lbs with no resupply (plus 30+ lb LBE). One thrid of the weight was water and it all went inside/outside a large ALICE.

CD

I’m looking at getting a ruck for my day to day work in carrying my kit. I’m a cop, but have need to carry the following items day to day:

IBA (possibly with side SAPI and DAPS when deployed)
ACH
Gas mask (M50 type)
Foul weather gear (APECS top and bottom)
Cold weather gear (seasonal, but consists of the Level 3 fleece and typically other snivel tops and bottoms)
2 quart canteen
Practice chem suit (JLIST type) with boots and gloves (mainly for exercises)
Assorted other odds and ends (spare pouches, traffic vest, reflector belt, manuals, etc)

I currently use an B4 flight bag, but I would like something with straps so I can carry it on my back if the need arises. Also, this would serve a double purpose as a deployment pack if I ever have need to carry in my basic load as I did going from Kuwait to Iraq with enough clothing/kit to last me up to seven days. Main use would be day to day carry on the job, but I would like the option of being able to use it for more than just throwing into a car trunk.

I’ve used the CFP90, but it blew out and frankly I’ve seen more than my fair share of broken ones (typically the SDS ones) and don’t trust them. I have a SPEAR pack, but just about too complicated for a knuckle dragger like me and width wise it’s a stretch for cramming an IBA into. The ALICE is a possibility along with the MOLLE II, but was looking for something coyote brown or foliage, with personal preference on the ‘yote.

I was looking at a Kifaru pack based on the reviews here as well as other sites and was hoping Mel or anyone else in the know might be able to point me at the right pack for the job. Total load should be in the range of 50-70 pounds with carrying the bulky items listed above, but I wouldn’t mind the capability for more. I was looking at the Navigator with the Pods system. Pod for the chem suit and the main pack for everything else. I also like the fact the Navigator has the full length zippers so I wouldn’t have to drag everything out to get at something on the bottom.

Suggestions?

Ruck Sack reccomendation.
 

You could consider a "MALICE" from Tactical Tailor. I had one for about 1.5 years and it lasted and worked well. I did have one seem rip but it was to my own fault and they repaired it free, just had to pay for both shipping ways. They also give LE/Mil discount which is great.

Kifaru is great I have had friends use them and love them and i do agree with the you get what you pay for, but to me IMHO they are not "the perfect ruck" by any means.

Do you need MOLLE attachement capabilities? are you going to need to expand you load to include more stuff in the futur?

Looked at the MALICE before...and somehow never happened to notice they made them in Coyote Brown. So much for my SA.

Absolutely have to have, no. Would really like to have the option of being able to switch pouches/pockets to meet needs as they come along, absolutely. I don't have to have that option, but I would really like to have that option. So down to it, yes, I would like to have MOLLE capabilities. But overall quality is my objective. I know Tac Tailor builds good kit. I use quite a bit of their stuff at work and have been utterly happy so far. And from the reviews I've seen here and elsewhere, Kifaru is good kit as well, but I don't own anything by them.

Thanks for the advice.

Re: Rucks
 

I recall the Mountain, the Jungle, and; the Indig. That is all I recall. We carried the INDIG in our unit on combat OPS. Frankly, I would pay $30 + now for one PIR with shrimp, mushrooms , hot pepper flakes and plus the" fresh bamboo shoots" the yards cut from young bamboo when we were relatively safe. I cannot recall the PIR 's #'s and contents from 1-5, I seem to recall. I was no fan of the mutton PIR. I would trade a yard or any SF to take my PIR mutton.

First post... Thought this reply would ad some interesting eye candy on the various ALICE "types" out there now.

~$lug

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/botach_2110_389786772
Blackhawk SOF:

http://www.bdstacticalgear.com/prod_...ck_front21.jpg
BDS mountain ruck:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...LARGEALICE.jpg
LARGE ALICE PACK

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...LICEMEDIUM.jpg
MEDIUM ALICE PACK

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ALICERADIO.jpg
RADIO MEDIUM ALICE PACK

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...CE/TTVER12.jpg
TT MALICE PACK Version1-Version2

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ICE/TTVER3.jpg
TT MALICE PACK Version3

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../HSGITRASH.jpg
HSGI T.R.A.S.H. BAG

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...AGMOUNTAIN.jpg
TAG GEAR MOUNTAIN RUCK

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...TIMBERWOLD.jpg
MYSTERY RANCH TIMBERWOLF

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...BT10POCKET.jpg
LONDON BRIDGE TRADING 10 POCKET