The PPK/S is a large pistol for its caliber and capacity. IMHO, there are several better choices today. Unless you just want to play James Bond.


The CZ75 is a great pistol, but is is not particularly compact.

TR

Reliable Pistol?
 

The more mechanical parts in anything the more of a chance that something will fail. The firearm is a tool and the thing you must first determine is " What do I want the firearm to do?" Self-Defense, Home Defense, concealed carry, hunting, target shooting, collection item or "plinking" If you are not 100% totally committed to learning and instruction and 110% committed to practice each and every day( firing a weapon at a target you intend to hit is a perishable skill that needs constant practice and attention to detail) Back to reliability, get a 4 inch Smith & Wesson J frame revolver,send it to the S&W Performance Center and get The Master Revolver Action Package that is offered as a gunsmithing service. This upgrade and enhancement should solve 99.9% of your reliability concerns. Just my .02...Regard's, TK

Where I work as a standby medic, the firearms instructors regularly have students reaching out and touching steel out to 300 yards with 1oz slugs out of the 870. Van Comp makes a great custom 870.

I'm not sure I'd trust a .410 from a pistol to kill much more than a snake.

AustinT,
Please tell me "Shotgun Master", what sort of "Steel" are you shooting at 300 yards and getting constant hits with a shotgun slug, a warship?
Team Sergeant

Walther PPS....
 

@Reaper

I'm not too familiar with the PPK, but i think that is significantly larger than the fairly new PPS (slim < .9" wide). IMHO, The PPS looked to be the slimmest and smallest 9mm that i could comfortably grip. It has mag/grip ext for range shooting and/or more capacity.... but i have not been abe to try this PPS at a range anywhere - and its not cheap, so i won't buy it unless i try it...a lot. :)

I did NOT like the LC9 at all. Now the LCP is 100% better! My $.02

Does anyone have more input on the PPS? ...or any other slim compact 9's?

Side note: I REALLY liked the Ruger SR9 in 9mm... has a manual safety also which seems to be getting rarer. Any knowledge of "striker fired" vs. std?

Thanks.

The traditional Walther PP Series are the same weapon with different length barrels and grips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PP

I prefer revolvers but have and carry both. My standard CCW is the S&W 940-1 and S&W CS9, both in 9MM P.

Then I jump to the S&W 625 and/or S&W 945, both are 45 ACP.

I do have a very slim, striker fired Browning 1910/1955 in 9MM K, that has never had a problem,, but I still don't use it for CCW..

Here is a chart that may help. It has the stats on small autos,, also a couple of my toys..

hahaha Not myself Team Sergeant, it was an advanced shotgun class that our facility hosted a few months ago. We don't use slugs on steel at close ranges, due to the tendency for the slug to send molten metal both from the steel and the slug all over the place, and it craters the steel really bad eventually eating holes through it.
The 300 yard targets were standard 40" E type silhouettes.
I'm not sure what sort of energy the slug maintains out at that range but we had some students hitting it, I was pretty surprised when I saw it myself.

Go to pistol-training and read where that guy, Todd Green, has shot

91,000 + rounds through a HK P30,
50,000 through an HK 45
61,000 through a S&W, MP 9, and
51,000 and still shooting a Glock 17.

Each test was completed within 6 months. That is a lot of shooting.

If you read his summaries and weekly updates on each pistol, you'll see that each pistol is very accurate and reliable.

Why look anywhere else?

Reliability is paramount.
 

I live in a very violent country, our murder rate being just over five times that of the USA, which is itself relatively high compared to some countries. This means that I carry a weapon every waking moment and am within a second of pulling the trigger even while in bed. Because it is not a great idea to let the public know that you are carrying, or more importantly, where you are carrying it, I have chosen my weapons so as to easily fit in a pocket or lie in my lap while driving. Hijacking and armed robberies at traffic lights are commonplace.
My daily carry gun is an old Colt Cobra .38sp which is light and easily concealable and has served me well in the past although its capacity of six is a little low for the type of crimes we are subject to. I confess to not cleaning and oiling my carry gun every day, and sometimes not every week either, but the revolver is fine with that. My city is very high (6000ft) and dry, so rust is not a problem at all.
A couple of weeks ago, I got a big wake-up call. I had just returned from a short coastal holiday about 8 hrs drive from home, and because the road is very dangerous at night (ambushes), I decided to take my Star PD .45 pistol instead of the .38, mainly so that I could take a few magazines in case of an ambush on the family. I cleaned and oiled the Star before we left and we were away for 5 days.
On my return home, instead of exchanging guns, I left the .38 in the safe and put the .45 in the open drawer of my bedside table as usual and went to sleep.
During the night, the dogs started barking madly which signified that an intruder had penetrated my high walls and electric fences. I grabbed the .45 pistol from the drawer and ran toward the window nearest to the clamour going on outside. We live in a double story house with barred doors, windows etc. so there is always time to get to the penetration point if you can establish where it is. I looked down and saw three intruders with a crow-bar trying to jemmy open one of the downstairs doors into the living room. I always carry a pistol with the mag inserted but without a round up the spout and safety off because I am afraid the "cocked and locked" condition in a pocket carried weapon could be " uncocked and lost" in one easy move. As I started moving towards the stairs to enable me to accost the intruders when they entered the living room, I cocked the Star. Well, I mean I tried to cock it, but the slide was frozen solid. I quickly removed the mag and gave the slide a sharp whack on the stair bannister and it still didnt budge. I ran back to the bedroom , found my safe key and retrieved the .38 from the safe in my bedroom cupboard and ran towards the stairs. By this time, the intruders had broken through the gate and had started on the wooden door behind it. As I came thundering down the stairs, they must have seen my shadow cast from the nightlight and they dropped tools and ran for it. I did not get to use the .38 but it was a close run thing. I learned two things. Sea air can form unseen fine rust between a slide and frame which is made worse with the mixture of light alloy frame and steel slide. and the other thing is, a night light will often work against you in your own home. After all, you are very familiar with your surroundings and an intruder isnt, so you are better off in the dark. This rather lengthy story is just to say that pistols need far more maintenance than revolvers for a similar level of reliability and that size and magazine capacity are not overriding factors when it comes to the choice of home defence guns. It also helps to have at least two to hand.

Buffalobob,

Your initial question that started the thread asked:

"What I want to know is only one thing. Which of these is the most reliable and jam free. I do not want a pistol that is finicky and has to constantly have the magazine lips adjusted nor do I want to have to try to clear a stoppage when I most need to shoot. If there is a 4.5 -5.0 inch barrel 9mm that I have not listed then feel to add it to the list".

I thought this question was very specific and regarded a civilian’s use of the pistol. I also believed that the question was addressed to the general membership here and not just the BTDTs. In that regard, I offered to help answer the original question by referring to a website where the owner shoots the heck out of guns, records breakages and failures to fire. This same website was referenced in post #63 above. I think it is a reasonable site that shows the potential and different problems with various common and popular handguns.

I understand this is a SF site, and that I am a guest here. This is why although I have been a member here for years, I very rarely post. The subjects of most posts are simply outside the scope of my expertise or knowledge. However, I thought the website to which I referred you might be helpful to the discussion.

Of course, I apologize if I implied that Mr. Green’s website was anything more than what it is - his summary of 4 handguns’ reliability and failure to fires.

Your last sentence of your first post was what caught my attention. All of the rest of your post was well thought out. I appreciate the advice from the guys on this forum whose definition of reliable is the same as mine.

As I mentioned, I had been cooped up in the house for several days as DC had been subject to record rainfall. On Saturday I had my choice of shooting at a doe at 116 yards with my 460XVR or a fox squirrel at 35 yards. I decided to try the fox squirrel being as it would be easier to pack out and clean for the freezer. I missed five straight times. Good point was I didn't have to acknowledge missing an easy shot on a deer. :D