Flint....... or Bic lighter......

I'll take the Bic lighter. I carried a "mini" Bic lighter in my combat gear for almost 20 years. I didn't smoke. I carried it for survival reasons.

I did hear one silly reason not yo carry a bic or butane lighter because butane has a freezing point of 0 degree C.

Here's a Team Sergeant secret to all those that throw this argument on the table: put the lighter in your pocket in extreme cold weather..... If you have dropped to 0 degrees you're dead..... I'd rather not be "banging" on a flint behind enemy lines....

TS

TS:

Agreed, and the lighter will still make sparks, even after the butane is gone.

I keep at least one in each of my lines of gear, in my ruck, in my LCE, and one in my pocket.

A mirror would be handy for visual signaling and for other purposes as well. No batteries, pyro charges, or other single use worries, unless you break it, and the issue survival models, in all sizes are very tough.

TR

sidenote, There are some who should never carry a bic lighter in their pocket while at work, like welders or those who run the risk of hot metallic spray going in the pocket.
Edited to add this link:http://www.safetyxchange.org/forum/v...31cc0da218e905

Ahh yes, this brings back memories of my days as a midshipmen at the US Merchant Marine Academy. Arc welding while wearing spit shinned shoes is always not a good idea. Not only does the melted metal screw up your shine and make you fodder for the upper classmen but it goes right through the leather giving your feet that nice speckled look.:D

Firemaking, when it can be -35 C, your on the run and you got some matches...

What Tuukka no "green" Logs on the Snow for that fire.. Now thats Smoking :lifter

Great Picture

A survival signal mirror takes 15-30 seconds to learn how to use..... It's worth a few seconds to master.....;)

TS

I've had my position verified (or defined), arrainged for exfil, called in "Danger Close" (as it is termed today) Air Support, all with the use of a Signal Mirror and commo. We did have alternate means, using said mirrors, to use in place of the RF commo.

To this day, I do not get onto an aircraft without a Signal Mirror!!!!

Later
Martin

"green" logs, now you´ve lost me on that one ?

Break squlch once for yes; twice for no!

Small items that can be carried by anyone:

In wallet:
Tool logic credit card companion -
Provides a can opener, compass, magnifying glass, tweezers, toothpick, combo knife/saw (of limited use), screwdriver (of limited use), rulers

In a small waterproof tin in a pocket:
The pocket chainsaw, a signal mirror, dental floss, safety pins and fishhooks, a bic lighter, all weather matches, condoms (unlubricated, for water storage)

On belt:
A Leatherman tool (or comparable item)

Not much weight, easy to carry... and might make the difference between survival and non-survival...

GH-
When I was visiting my folks in NC for Turkey day, I found a Stanley pocket tool that's pretty good - it has a 1/4 inch drive and bits, even came with 2 extra knives (not bad for beat-em-up pocket knives) - best thing - it was on sale for about $20 - (regular price $70) - it was the deal of the year for me. The tool is a little bigger than a leatherman though.

I like Stanley and Craftsman tools. There are some cheap tools out there that look good in the plastic but fail under use. Some of that off shore stuff has real soft steel and could fail at a poor time.

My Leatherman and Swiss Army Knives are still going strong after 30 +/- years. My five D cell mag light is still handy for checking out strange sounds at night. Added in are my two (one in the mail) SureFire Lights.

Pete

With good equipment older than most of the students:D .

Pete-
I've got a couple of knives that could be the student's parents..... Hell I've got boots older than some of the kids.

One of the alluring aspects of Special Forces to me as a kid was the thought of spending time outdoors building snares, shelters and so on. Having spent a large portion of my life in very rural settings, I've had a chance to tinker around in the woods some. I had family in the rural mountains of PA, and the attraction grew stronger when I spent a couple of weeks each summer as an asset for the 11th Grp when they were in the area for their AT.

The Foxfire series of books come to mind as a very good read. Gosh, I remember reading them as a kid through my teens. There's some crazy stuff in them like dowsing, snake handling and square dancing. However, there's a ton of really valuable info to be had. Everything from soap making, hide tanning, moon shining to preserving foods, weaving and "other affairs of plain living." I'm not saying it's going to address what to do in the first week or so of a survival situation, but given the 60 day scope of this exercise…

For this exercise I would like:

1 pocket knife, 550 cord, duct tape combo. Never knew what this was called, but it was on me religiously when I was in the field ever since Sgt Csaba showed it to me at SFQC. The swiss army knife I carried was one of the longer than standard sized ones with a long blade, saw that works, and a can opener I think… it’s in my fishing vest now. My old Case stockman has taken it’s place in my pocket. It had a lanyard hole in the rear that I tied a 24 or so inch piece of 550 cord through. The other end was fastened to a bic lighter by wrapping a dozen or so wraps of green duct tape (trimmed to fit) around it and the lighter. Put the kife in your right pocket, thread the lighter and 550 through your front belt loops, and put the lighter in the other pocket. Just make sure you’ve got enough 550 cord so that each can be easily pulled out of the pocket and used. Damn near impossible to lose any one piece, and you have 4 items taking up a manageable amount of space.


Small fishing kit. Anyone who fly fishes is familiar with tippet spools. I have some that will fit in an empty can of Skoal. The back is hollowed out, so you can put the spool of 8-12lb mono and 30# Fireline in a plastic (not Cope) can with some goodies behind it. Spit shot, a few terrestrial pattern flies, and some bait hooks ranging from size 8 for trout and panfish to 1/0 or 2/0 for bass and cats. I would want the bait hooks with the barbs on the shank. I would plan on fishing for some small stuff at first. If the environment provided a decent size body of water, I would plan on using the gut and white underbelly to fish for larger meals like turtles and catfish. The barbs will help to keep bait that may have been hard to aquire on the hook.

Woodsmans Pal Jr. & a sharpening steel I could fit into the sheath.

A small keychain compass. The ball type floating inside of a clear lexan container. About the diameter of a dime, and can be attached to a button pocket hole with 550 cord core so it cannot be lost. Small and functional.

I wouldn’t mind having some char cloth, and a magnifying glass.

Signal mirror.

Guitar string can be thread into your boot laces if you use 550 cord.

Some other stuff, but work calls. :mad:

How not to do it.

Good concept, poor execution and supervision.

$3,150 to run people through the desert till they die?

TR

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269688,00.html

Records: New Jersey Man May Have Needlessly Died of Thirst on Wilderness Survival Trip
Wednesday, May 02, 2007

BOULDER, Utah —

A man died of thirst during a wilderness-survival exercise designed to test his physical and mental toughness, even though guides had water. They didn't offer him any because they did not want to spoil the character-building experience.

By Day 2 in the blazing Utah desert, Dave Buschow was in bad shape. Pale, wracked by cramps, his speech slurred, the 29-year-old New Jersey man was desperate for water and hallucinating so badly he mistook a tree for a person.

After going roughly 10 hours without a drink in the 100-degree heat, he finally dropped dead of thirst, face down in the dirt, less than 100 yards from the goal: a cave with a pool of water.

But Buschow was no solitary soul, lost and alone in the desert. He and 11 other hikers from various walks of life were being led by expert guides on a wilderness-survival adventure designed to test their physical and mental toughness.

And the guides, it turned out, were carrying emergency water on that torrid summer day.

Buschow wasn't told that, and he wasn't offered any. The guides did not want him to fail the $3,175 course. They wanted him to dig deep, push himself beyond his known limits, and make it to the cave on his own.

Nearly a year later, documents obtained by The Associated Press under the Freedom of Information Act reveal those and other previously undisclosed details of what turned out to be a death march for Buschow. They also raise questions about the judgments and priorities of the guides at the Boulder Outdoor Survival School. What matters more: the customer's welfare or his quest?

"It was so needless. What a shame. It didn't have to happen," said Ray Gardner, the Garfield County sheriff's deputy who hiked six miles to recover Buschow's body. "They had emergency water right there. I would have given him a drink."

Family members are angry.

"Down in those canyons it's like a furnace," said Rob Buschow of Glen Spey, N.Y. "I don't have my brother anymore because no one would give him water."

While regretting the tragedy, the school, known as BOSS, has denied any negligence and instead blamed Buschow, saying the security officer and former Air Force airman did not read course materials, may have withheld health information and may have eaten too heavily before leaving River Vale, N.J., for the grueling course.

Noting Buschow signed liability waivers, the school said: "Mr. Buschow expressly assumed the risk of serious injury or death prior to participating."

Garfield County authorities declined to file charges, saying there was insufficient evidence the school acted with criminal negligence. The prosecutor said participants knew they were taking a risk.

The U.S. Forest Service, however, has stopped BOSS from using Dixie National Forest for a portion of the 28-day course this summer until it gets outside advice on providing food and water. The agency said it was the first death of a participant in a BOSS survival exercise.

The Colorado-based school dates to the late 1960s. In 1994, BOSS alumnus Josh Bernstein, a New Yorker with an Ivy League education, took over marketing and administration and later became owner. He also is host of the History Channel's "Digging for the Truth," a show that takes viewers on archaeological adventures around the world.

BOSS emphasizes personal growth through adversity, and using your wits to survive. The mantra: "Know more, carry less."

BOSS has wilderness courses lasting just a few days to a month. During the 28-day survival course, held 250 miles from Salt Lake City, campers are required to hike for miles and drink what they can find from natural sources.

Tent, matches, compass, sleeping bag, portable stove, watch — all have no role. Campers are equipped with a knife, water cup, blanket and poncho and are told they could lose 20 pounds or more. Among the things they learn is how to catch fish with their hands and how to kill a sheep with a knife.

The course is intended to push people "past those false limits your mind has set for your body."

"Somewhere along the many miles of sagebrush flats, red rock canyons, and mesa tops of Southern Utah — somewhere between the thirst, the hunger and the sweat — you'll discover the real destination: yourself," BOSS says on its Web site.

Buschow had marched the arctic tundra in Greenland. And after leaving the Air Force, he worked security at U.S. bases outside the country. He recalled his days as a Boy Scout in his May 2006 application to BOSS.

"Although in the yrs since, I have continued to appreciate Mother Nature," he wrote by hand, "I still haven't ever truly immersed myself in her embrace. I fear that I'm becoming a 'comfort camper,' having never come close to looking her in the eyes."

Buschow described himself as 5-foot-7 and about 180 pounds, with a resting pulse of 66. A New York doctor checked a box declaring him fit for a survival program. Buschow signed the application, acknowledging that BOSS was not offering a "risk-free wilderness experience."

The documents obtained by the AP disclose the brief but bitter wilderness adventure of Buschow:

On July 16, he gathered here with the 11 others, including some from England and a college student who had bicycled from Maine. Most were in their 20s and 30s. They ran 1 1/2 miles so the staff could assess their conditioning.

Buschow "was not the most in-shape but not the most out of shape," recalled camper Charlie DeTar, 25, the cross-country bicyclist.

On the second day, after a cool night, the group set out around sunrise and stopped about 8:30 a.m. to dip their cups into Deer Creek in what turned out to be the only water until evening. Buschow pulled a bottle from his pack — but was warned by the staff not to fill it.

During the early phase of the expedition, participants can drink water at the source only and cannot carry it with them.

The group, led by three guides, formed a loose chain, with stronger hikers ahead of people struggling at the 6,000-foot elevation, or more than a mile above sea level.

"We didn't cover all that much distance, maybe five to six miles. We were moving slowly, a lot of up and down," DeTar said in an interview from Vermont. "You don't have food, you don't have water, so you have to move at the slowest pace of the group."

They rested periodically under pinons and junipers, all the while looking for signs of water, such as green vegetation in canyon bottoms. At least two attempts to dig for water failed.

Not everyone had close contact with Buschow, but a consensus emerges from the campers' written accounts obtained by the AP: While cheerful, encouraging and coherent at times, he was a man in deep trouble hours before he collapsed.

"We were all desperate for water," a camper wrote. "Every time (Buschow) would fall or lie down, it took a huge amount of effort to pick him back up. His speech was thick and his mouth swollen."

"Every time he continued, he'd rush ahead, often in the wrong direction and so exhausting himself even more," the camper wrote.

The sun was described as blazing, inescapable. "There were no clouds," a camper wrote.

Some people vomited that day, including a man who got sick three times — a typical misery on the rigorous course, according to BOSS. Buschow was suffering from leg cramps about 2:30 p.m. and said he was feeling "bad."

During a break, he mistook a tree for a person and said, "There she is."

"This was the first point at which I became concerned knowing that delirium happens when dehydration becomes severe," a camper wrote. Buschow "also asked if there was much air traffic that went through here, and asked if anyone had a signal mirror."

(The Forest Service, citing privacy concerns, deleted certain names from documents.)

By 7 p.m., as the sun descended and temperatures cooled a bit, the group approached a cave in Cottonwood Canyon, known to BOSS guides as a reliable source of water.

Buschow's companions were carrying his possessions for him. Within earshot of people exhilarated about the pool of water, he collapsed for the last time.

"He said he could not go on," staff member Shawn O'Neal wrote two days later in a statement ordered by the Garfield County Sheriff's Office. "I felt that he could make it this short distance and told him he could do it as I have seen many students sore, dehydrated and saying 'can't' do something only to find that they have strength beyond their conceived limits."

O'Neal didn't inform Buschow about his emergency water.

"I wanted him to accomplish getting to the water and the cave for rest," he wrote. "He asked me to go get the water for him. I said I was not going to leave him. ... Shortly thereafter I had a bad feeling and turned to Dave and found no sign of breathing."

A staff apprentice climbed to the top of a dead juniper to get reception for a cellular call to the Boulder office.

Five people took turns trying to revive Buschow while red biting ants crawled over his face. A rescue helicopter from Page, Ariz., arrived about 90 minutes after he passed out, but a defibrillator failed to jump-start his heart. Campers gathered in a circle for the news: "Dave is dead."

They had a moment of silence and ate almonds, sesame sticks and energy bars distributed by staff, the first food since sandwiches more than 24 hours earlier.

Buschow's death was caused by dehydration and electrolyte imbalance, according to Dr. Edward Leis, Utah's deputy chief medical examiner, who found no evidence of drugs or other factors.

DeTar, a camper who performed CPR, said no one was told that BOSS guides carried emergency water, but "I heard it slosh" in a pack.

Should it have been offered to Buschow? And if it's for an emergency, what triggers it?

"Hard to say," said DeTar, who has a master's degree from Dartmouth College and is trained in wilderness first aid. "One thing that BOSS offers you is an opportunity to push yourself physically into the red zone. ... He was 200 feet from the water. Is that the point where you give it to him? Or 500 feet?"

Bernstein, the school's owner, agreed to answer questions only by e-mail. He said BOSS instructors can give water based on their assessment of a camper's needs.

"The group appeared to be within the normal parameters we've seen on the trail over the years," Bernstein said. "Many were, understandably, tired, but morale was high and the participants were determined to continue. ... He seemed capable of completing the hike to camp that evening."

In a Feb. 27 letter to the Forest Service, Bernstein said Buschow may not have trained properly, pointing to comments he made to another camper about drinking a gallon of water a day and eating cheesesteaks to bulk up before the expedition.

His brother, Rob Buschow, said: "It's sickening when they blame the victim."

After Buschow's death, five people left the course. The six campers who completed the exercise returned to the site to leave a bouquet of foliage and a marker of stones.

"I didn't want to have the fear of the desert instilled in me because of this incident," DeTar said.

I hope that everyone involved is left destitute after the family's inevitable civil suit. What a waste of a life. :(

Some really good info on this thread. A lot better then most survival sights I read. This June will be the first time I will be home in warm weather in three years. Me and my kid will resume our Poncho Hooch treks into Uwharrie. I sent him a Survival book from Amazon yesterday and several post from this thread to keep him busy. First time camping he was a little concerned we didn't have a tent. Doesn't want anything to do with them since sleeping in a Lean Shelter or Poncho Hooch.
Might have to venture into Pisgah if we get brave enough. Started out around Bragg, then moved on to Uwharrie. He is ten now so he can hump his ruck a little better. Are packs are only about 20 to 25 pounds for three days. Trick is to find an area with available water. Water is heavy.
Uwharrie is great because it is so under used. You can camp where ever you want to. I think certain parts of Pisgah don't allow dogs and free range camping. Nothing turns me off more then rules and regulations. I would never hike thru these areas unarmed no matter what. But Uwharrie seems to have a don't ask we don't want to know policy. At least that was my impression when the Ranger winked at me after asking their carry policy;)

Sir, A quality fixed blade knife is the only thing I believe I'd need.

Although most times I will carry a poncho, 100+ feet of 550 cord, mirror, compass, canteen cup, magnesium fire starter, field dressing, local map, vs-17 panel portion, GPS with spare batteries, and a Ruger Mark II pistol in holster with 100 rds and spare mag. All of this was in a small day bag.

Congratulations.

Very few people can start a fire, trap and cook game, make cordage, collect, purify, and carry water, repair clothing and shelter, treat injuries and illnesses, signal, navigate, etc. with just a blade.

TR

I watch Bear Grylls. :p "Man vs Wild"

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it is to never stop thinking, to decide and to act on that decision. Most everything you will need can be found in the wild. What ever your needs, nutrition, hydration, shelter, and fire can be made with ingenuity, and a desire to survive.

Patience is almost alway's a virture. I've learned a lot from this thread.

mindset. Thanks 82nd.

Knife and cord seem to be the single most important tools you can have. You can, essentially, make or scavenge everything else you need through the use of these items - of course with the proper knowhow and execution.

While it is not in the minimalist realm of survival, a great item to have (as mentioned previously) is a radio:

For a very simple, yet effective bugout radio, Kaito's KA series (I own a KA007) is able to receive AM, FM, Weather band, TV, Short Wave, and Air signals. It is powered via batteries (3x AA), A/C adapter, solar panel on the rear, or a hand dynamo which lasts a significant amount of time with very little effort. It also contains a small LED to act as a makeshift flashlight, and has a standard headphone jack so you can listen with a pair of earbuds (included) to reduce necessary volume - thereby reducing the power consumption. This jack also doubles as an antenna for Short Wave band signals using the included wire-antenna.

~$30 for a great bugout/survival/GOOD radio is definitely worth it, I think.

Kaito KA009 @ Weems Creek Solutions

Gentlemen, thank you for a great thread. I've learned more in these pages than all of my Army training of the last several years (sadly).

[edit]

Upon further thought, you could use the components in this radio (such as the solar cell and dynamo) for many other things. Charging batteries for your flashlight, for example, would be an excellent use to apply to the solar cell.

I disagree with this.

Man vs. Wild is three to five days, and he is usually on the move to habitation.

It would be very difficult to live that way for two months. Try preparing food at your house from scratch for a week with no salt at all. Then consider how it would be after eight weeks. At the same time, laagering up at a single site means time to construct a decent shelter, gather materials, set and service a trap line, etc.

IMHO, in a survival situation, acting without thorough consideration on a non-emergency problem is a recipe for making a bad decision much worse. Look before you leap.

TR

Man vs. Wild
 

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle2116195.ece
TV 'survival king' stayed in hotels

TO LIVE up to his public image of a rugged, ex-SAS adventurer, it must have seemed essential for Bear Grylls to appear at ease sleeping rough and catching his own food in his television survival series.

But it has emerged that Grylls, 33, was enjoying a far more conventional form of comfort, retreating some nights from filming in mountains and on desert islands to nearby lodges and hotels.

Now Channel 4 has launched an investigation into whether Grylls, who has conquered Everest and the Arctic, deceived the public in his series Born Survivor.

The series, screened in March and April and watched by 1.4m viewers, built up Grylls's credentials as a tough outdoorsman. In a question and answer session on Channel 4's website, he recalls how station bosses pitched the venture to him stating: "We just drop you into a lot of different hellholes equipped with nothing, and you do what you have to do to survive."

But an adviser to Born Survivor has disclosed that at one location where the adventurer claimed to be a "real life Robin-son Crusoe" trapped on "a desert island", he was actually on an outlying part of the Hawaiian archipelago and spent nights at a motel.

On another occasion in California's Sierra Nevada mountains where he was filmed biting off the head of a snake for breakfast and struggling for survival "with just a water bottle, a cup and a flint for making fire", he actually slept some nights with the crew in a lodge fitted with television and internet access. The Pines Resort at Bass Lake is advertised as "a cosy getaway for families" with blueberry pancakes for breakfast.

In one episode Grylls, son of the late Tory MP Sir Michael Grylls, was shown apparently building a Polynesian-style raft using only materials around him, including bamboo, hibiscus twine and palm leaves for a sail.

But according to Mark Weinert, an Oregon-based survival consultant brought in for the job, it was he who led the team that built the raft. It was then dismantled so that Grylls could be shown building it on camera.

In another episode viewers watched as Grylls tried to coax an apparently wild mustang into a lasso in the Sierra Nevada. "I'm in luck," he told viewers, apparently coming across four wild horses grazing in a meadow. "A chance to use an old native American mode of transport comes my way. This is one of the few places in the whole of the US where horses still roam wild."

In fact, Weinert said, the horses were not wild but were brought in by trailer from a nearby trekking station for the "choreographed" feature.

"If you really believe everything happens the way it is shown on TV, you are being a little bit naive," he said.

Channel 4 confirmed that Grylls had used hotels during expeditions and has now asked Diverse, the Bristol-based production company that made the programme, to look into the other claims.

"We take any allegations of misleading our audiences seriously," said a spokeswoman for the channel.

The latest suggestion that Channel 4 may have breached viewer trust comes as the broad-caster's supervisory board prepares to issue new editorial guidelines to suppliers in order to stamp out alleged sharp practices that mislead viewers.

"Born Survivor is not an observational documentary series but a 'how to' guide to basic survival techniques in extreme environments," the spokeswoman said.

"The programme explicitly does not claim that presenter Bear Grylls's experience is one of unaided solo survival."

Nevertheless, the disclosure is likely to disappoint fans of the Eton-educated adventurer, who at the age of 23 became the youngest Briton to scale Everest. Just two years before that he had broken his back in three places after his parachute ripped during a military exercise.

On screen he has emerged as a natural performer, with stunts such as squeezing water from animal dung and sucking the fluid from fish eyeballs.

Grylls could not be contacted for comment this weekend as he was trekking in the Brecon Beacons with his four-year-old son.

I always thought the term "reality television" was an oxymoron.

The series "Survivorman" was, IMO, a far better survival primer than "Man vs. Wild". Its wasn't as exciting, and the host didn't do crazy, attention-grabbing things like Grylls, but it was more realistic. Many of the techniques Grylls shows look cool, but involve far too much risk than one should take in a survival situation (unless that is the only option). Climbing a rope hand-over-hand 100ft up a ravine, eating raw zebra meat, and sneaking up to African predators to get a look at them just doesn't make sense when faced with other, safer choices.

Agree completely.

I told my kids that after watching him do stupid stuff like eating a scorpion, jumping off big rocks (or directly down steep faces), climbing up rock chimneys and faces, moving during the day in 120 degree heat, handling a poisonous snake, chowing down on a spider, and drinking his own urine, that these are not things that we do until we are very near the end and are desperate. You break an ankle, get poisoned, start throwing up and running with diarrhea, get bitten, have a heat stroke, or any one of a lot of bad things that can happen with an excessive risk in a survival situation, and you have just made a bad situation much worse.

If it were me, I would pass on most of the insects (and all of the poisonous ones), move carefully, and on fairly level terrain when possible, lay up during the hottest part of the day, stay near potable water sources, etc., and I would probably make it through the same areas he does, but it would probably be slower and a lot less dramatic.

You also have to realize that the camera crew are there and they are not unprepared, having water, food, first aid, tents, commo, trans, etc.

For a short move (or layup) of that duration, you could do it with what he carries (normally a water bottle, which looks like it has a braided 550 cord strap, a folding knife, and a firestarter). You could probably do it with just a knife as well, but it would suck even more.

It would add significantly to his odds and comfort, without adding a lot of gear, to include a few more items.

Leatherman Multi-tool (in lieu of his folder)
Canteen cup
Water Purification Tabs or better yet, MSR MIOX
550 cord
Button Compass
Photon Micro-Lite
Butane lighter
Alcohol prep pads (Wound cleaning and fire starting)
Scalpel Blade (Med needs, small cutting chores, fine, sharp knife work)
Suture with needle (Closing wounds, repairing clothing and gear)
Small fishing and wire snare kit (Gathering food and lashings)
Plastic garbage bag (waterproofing and improvised rain gear or sleeping bag)
1 gallon Ziploc bag (waterproofing, food or water transport)
Small sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil (cooking, boiling water, signalling)
Signal mirror*
Whistle*

* To assist with being found. If you do not want to be found, they are not necessary.

This gear would easily fit in his pockets or around his water bottle to the point that unless you searched him, you would not know that he was carrying it.

Note that in area with more traffic, a lot of this can be scavenged, like water bottles, trash bags, Ziplocs, foil, lighters (even one out of fuel will normally produce a usable spark), cordage, a container or surface to cook in/on, tinder, etc.

When I was out in a remote part of Uwharrie National Forest on survival during the SFQC, one of the first things I did after orienting myself was to look for potable water and to cruise for resources. I quickly found a 2 liter soda bottle, some plastic grocery bags, a trash bag, some ZipLoc bags, a wad of aluminum foil, some old electric fence wire, paper bags and newspapers (for tinder), and an old hubcap that I could put over the fire to cook in.

There was a culvert just up the hill from my survival area with fairly clear flowing water. I strained it through my T-shirt and used water purification tablets, and never had any problems with it.

The points here are that it is stupid to take unnecessary risks in a real survival situation (unless you have your camera crew handy with an INMARSAT or Iridium), that staying in one place is easier than moving, that a few small items can make your life much more confortable, IF you have them with you when you need them, items with multiple uses are preferred over single use items, and that many items can be found even in remote areas that will assist you when in survival mode.

HTH.

TR

QP's, what training would you suggest for someone who does not have access to military SERE training to cultivate the ability to deal with these issues. FM 21-76 states the two gravest general dangers are the desire for comfort (or to NOT be in pain, lonley, sick, hurt, etc) and a passive outlook. How does one train themselves to overcome these issues? On a side note, because of this thread my wife and I are going camping this weekend. She's going for the peace and quiet. I'm going to practice some skills. Can't wait.

A bunch of my friends love that show (Man vs Wild). Every time I hear them talking about it, I have to make mention of all the stupid things he does. Like jumping in to a freezing river or climbing trees. What ever happened to stay dry, stay warm, stay safe? Don't ration water or food - ration work. This guy teaches people to be stupid in survival situations.

I'd have a Leatherman, flint, canteen, small knife sharpener, a handlheld wire saw, block of magnesium, 20 feet of 550 cord, iodine tabs, strong fixed blade knife, signal mirror, small bottle of salt tabs, alcohol wipes, neosporin, medical tape, and several 2x2's. All items currently in my survival kit.

Priorities of work would be;

1. Find potable water source preferably stream of some sort and set up camp a short distance from there.
2. Set traps, deadfalls and snares
3. Collect fire wood, kindling, and build fire
4. Build shelter
5. Forage for edible berries, roots and such.
6. Check traps
7. Continue to improve shelter
8. Build a smoker to preserve meats
9. set up a trot line
10. Build big game hunting instruments, spears, Bow and arrows.
11. Once I catch big game after I dress it and skin it I would smoke the meat and start making a wrap to keep me warm. A long process. The activity and fire would have to do until then.

Of course The best laid plans.... This is alot eaiser said than done but in any case it would be absolutely miserable until my AO was completely established. After about two weeks though it should fairly comfortable. I have never been put to the test but my Dad who thought the russians were coming when I was a kid taught me how to do all these tasks. Never done them all together, and the fur I did was a rabbit and that took forver.

How about figuring out your location and doing an inventory of gear that is on hand or can be scavenged? Be sure to stop and think first! Unless you are E&Eing, time is probably on your side...

cobra:

jatx has some good points.

Checklists are fine, but I wouldn't get too wrapped around them. You have to remain flexible, and prioritize according to METT-T. The priorities in Alaska in February are going to be vastly different from Panama in July.

Review the basics: air, shelter (including fire for warmth), water, food. In a benign environment, shelter may fall to last place. In a harsh or extreme environment, it will likely be near the top.

As far as your list goes, you need a container to boil water or cook in. A canteen cup (or one of the Titanium version, if you are an ultralight guy) is a good, compact solution.

I would take salt over salt tabs. If you have a MIOX water purifier, it takes salt and a battery to work, but you can use the salt on your food as well. A bouillion cube or two can be great, or if you must be very compact, the seasoning packet out of a 15 cent pack of ramen is good. A tea bag or intstant coffee packet might be nice.

You need a compact light source, unless it never gets dark where you are. The Photons are the best small lighting solution, and are among the most flexible.

Have you actually lit a fire with your flint before? If not, you might want to try it in a non-survival situation. An actual flame is a vastly superior fire starter than a shower of tiny, weak sparks, unless you have gasoline, or powder.

I would carry more than 20' of 550 cord. I use it for boot laces as well. If you need small cordage, you can gut it and still lace up your boots with the sheath. BTW, for those who have never used 550 cord before, the internal strands are slippery and do not hold knots well. A quick pass with the BIC or over a hot coal is a good way to lock them permanently.

I would want a ZipLoc, condom, or trash bag for waterproofing and water storage. Nothing worse than having to spend 30 minutes and hundreds of calories every time your 1 qt. canteen runs dry, and it tends to dehydrate you as well, as you opt to drink less to avoid the trek. The trash bag is quickly a good rain poncho, ground cloth, improvised sleeping bag, or can be split open to improve the watertightness of your shelter. If you have food, and no place to secure it, it will spoil faster and will quickly be bug infested. Condoms need to be the plain variety.

If I were taking any tape, it would be 100 mph tape. It will work longer holding a bandage, and has a lot of other uses as well. You can wrap things in it and peel it off as needed. A couple of wraps around a canteen is a few feet of good cheap insurance.

You will need wire for snares and repairs, and hooks for fishing. A tiny bottle of hooks and some monofilament line (also good for lashings), wrapped in snare wire is an excellent way to secure a steady food source in the wild. Trust me, making traps, snares, and hooks is no way as easy, or effective, as making a noose snare out of wire or just tying a hook onto a few feet of mono line.

People who have never lived in the woods much seem to think that there a a plentiful supply of large stupid herbivores which are as easy to take with a spear or a knife as a centerfire rifle.

The truth is:

- Large game is much rarer in the wild than small game.
- Large game is more cautious and aware, or they would not have grown up to that size. Think Darwin.
- It takes longer and more resources to grow, so you can quickly exhaust an area of its big game. One middle-aged buck may have several square miles of territory.
- Large game will be harder to kill, and even more difficult to stop. Even if you can hit one with a homemade arrow from a homemade bow, he will likely run far away, and will likely not be killed by it.
- A wounded large animal, even a herbivore, can hurt badly you trying to escape.
- It will be difficult to hang, gut, and skin large game in a survival situation. So many people take their kill to processing plants that I think most are unaware of just how difficult it is to prepare. It looks much easier on TV.
- Without cooling, salt, or other preservation means, in the summer, you may have 24 hours or less to consume the game before it goes bad. How will you consume 200 lbs. of venison in 24 hours? Hard to smoke that much meat, that quickly in the wild.
- Large carnivores and scavengers can sense a large kill for many miles and you may attract unwanted visitors. What do you do with the 100 pounds of guts, bones, and hide near your camp site? Bears will come after game that others have killed, they can smell much better than a bloodhound. Unless you are ready for that, think about it. You may not want the constant stream of buzzards over your kill site either.

- Small game, like squirrels, rabbits, fish, etc., on the other hand are plentiful and are near the bottom of the food chain. They exist primarily for other animals to eat. For that reason, they reproduce, well, like rabbits and are hard to eliminate completely, as farmers can attest.
- They are not too smart and are easy to catch with a variety of traps and snares.
- You can run a trap line and unless you are a serious eater or in a poor environment, not depopulate the area.
- They are easy to kill if trapped.
- They are well, meal sized. Much less waste. And the small amount of waste can be easily disposed of, or used as bait for other, larger creatures.
- They are portable. You can easily tie or cage a live rabbit for dining later. You can build a fish corral. Deer and other large animals do not like that.
- They are easy to prepare, I can gut and skin a rabbit in a couple of minutes.
- If you catch two that you do not need, you can quickly become a rancher. Deer and other large game don't work that way.

Best of luck, hope this helps.

Wolverines!!

I advise you don't try to hunt,kill and eat one of these :D

Red Dawn reference based on cobra's comments about his Dad.

Good movie.

TR

A "block of magnesium", nice, next time it's 30 below I want you to shave that block of magnesium and start a fire. Trust me I'd done it.

In its place I'd advise X2 Bic lighters. I carried the same Bic lighter in a survival kit for almost twenty years, still worked when I threw it away.

When the unintelligent tell you that the gas inside the Bic will freeze below -20 (or what ever is the freezing point) tell them you fully intend to place the plastic part in your mouth to warm it and then use it to light your fire.

You should also place the lighter in a strong waterproof case in a survival kit.

TS

You might consider putting together a generic kit like mine, which lurks at the bottom of my assault pack:

Nalgene container wrapped w/ 10 ft. of 100 mph tape. Stored inside:
- Space blanket (shelter & warmth)
- Button compass
- 6x6 swatch of t-shirt material (filtering sediment from water)
- Small med kit w/ bandages, antibiotic ointment, razor blade, OTC analgesics and 4000 mg hydrocodone
- Small sewing kit w/ heavy gauge needle, waxed thread and monofilament
- Bic lighter
- Pocket chainsaw (clearing obstructions, building a shelter)
- Waterproof vial w/ windproof matches
- Hand sanitizer (hygiene and firestarting)
- Signal mirror and whistle
- 2x gallon ziploc bags
- 100 ft 550 cord
- 2 chemlights (1 white, 1 IR) for signaling at night (swing in circle on 550 cord)

These items augment the Leatherman and Photon light on my person, plus the Mioxx purifier also lurking in the bottom of the bag. The items can be transferred to one of the Ziplocs if I need the Nalgene for water treatment/storage. I also carry an empty Nalgene, so that I have one to drink from while water is being treated in the other. Altogether, these items take up about 4" in the bottom of my bag and weight about 5 lbs.

Now that TR has me thinking about snares and fishing, I'm going to see if I can jam some wire and hooks in too! Although a gill net would be really nice...:D

Edited to add: I think I'll just put the wire and hooks under another length of tape on the outside, since space is tight.

The chair is against the wall!

jatx:

Not bad.

The t-shirt material is an emergency substitute if you have nothing else. The mesh is really a bit large for proper filtering. For a kit, I would recommend a piece of nylon stocking or a paper coffee filter (limited number of uses , but can be used for tinder when used up and dried out).

4000 mg of Hydrocodone is 400-800 tabs and is a 10-20 day supply. Taken all at once, it contains a lethal dose of Acetominophen. Do you plan to commit suicide, stay high the entire time, deal the Hydrocodone for survival items, drug the wild game, or just get arrested and spend the time in jail?

The ETS site links to the companies that sell the AMK Pocket Survival Pack, which contains most of the smaller items in a really compact format. Add a canteen with cup, a MIOX, a multitool, a lighter, and a couple of bags, and you should be good to go with a basic kit.

You probably also need a box of the small ZipLocs to break out your hundreds of Hydrocodone tabs for resale.

TR

That's interesting, because I started out with the paper filters and moved to the fabric because of their tendency to tear after being used a few times. I'll sub the stocking material, which offers the added advantage of being more compact.

You get free McDonald's in jail! :D

Seriously, I am looking at the prescription bottle and it says "Vicodin 5/500". I have eight of those halved and jammed into a small pill box. That's enough to take the edge off for 2-3 days following a badly twisted ankle or a Democrat being elected to the White House.