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Originally Posted by Dr. Mabuse
akv, how often do people knowingly die for a lie?
That's my point. People willing to be tortured/murdered/ridiculed just because they don't believe it but value it? Huh? People in Jesus' time could choose to walk away and not believe. IMHO, your other examples fail in this regard as an example.
What was the contemporary Jew in Jesus' time threatened with if he/she left their faith and followed Jesus. Hell to pay, IIRC. Don't mind me. After being an atheist ( and a good one at that ) almost all of my life and now in the other camp, I have to smile when I see old, familiar arguments that I used to use. No worries. As a portfolio manager, you or your client have to understand faith. Right?
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Dr. Mabuse,
I'm not sure you follow me here, despite cultural differences on the value of life, people are willing to die for whatever it is in life they value. It could be the life of their child, the bond with their fellow soldiers, or their faith etc. I don't doubt the apostles believed in the divinity of Christ, this was their faith and they paid the price. The fact they were willing to die for their religious beliefs shows this is what they valued, I admire their devotion, but plenty of folks have been willing to die for Jewish, Hindu or other faiths as well.
As for the challenges faced by contemporary Jews under the Roman Empire they had to watch their step anytime it was felt they might disturb the status quo, think of the Masada. There was no bill of rights for them.
A lie is an issue of fact not faith. People will absolutely die for a lie, if there is something there they value more than factual truth. Once again, at Corregidor, Macarthur had told them he was coming right back with reinforcements, this was not true, they still fought and died, maybe because they valued their buddies in their unit more than life itself, or the factual truth of the situation, and didn't want to be the one to let them down. They knew the score.
Finally you mention faith as it regards to profession. There is a vast difference between a business that provides a service for a fee, and a faith based operating system for life. The doctor, the kid who mows your lawn, or the person who manages your money will be replaced if they don't show tangible results. Perhaps in time they earn your trust, but their results can be verified. Contrast this to matters of faith, verification of faith is just that, more faith. I am not without faith myself, I believe in God, I just don't see why calling him Yaweh, Krishna, or Allah matters?