The entire German view of Islam:

But doesn't that contradict 3-24 which implies the will of the majority is all you need? And that being mean to people naturally builds self-destructive antibodies? ;)

disappointing
 

I had hoped that he would put up some kind of counter argument, I enjoy debating these types. To come on and whine like a little girl and then run away is just pathetic. Maybe push-ups or pull-ups or whatever the hell he was saying is the wrong direction for him, maybe kegel exercises would be better (yes, that's spelled right, had to look it up).

CAIR gets a new name
 

I wasn't sure whether I should post this here or in The Comedy Zone, but here goes:

It seems like CAIR (the Council on American Islamic Relations), who was actually an un-indicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation trial - translated: "in bed" with both the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas - is in pretty hot water for money laundering the millions of dollars they get from oil-rich Gulf Arabs.

That in itself is a long story:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/09/ha...ington-dc.html

But apparently CAIR is now changing its name to the "Washington Trust Foundation, Inc." Yep, that's right. Their new acronym is going to be "WTF". Humorous, and somehow so very appropriate!

WTF's Incorporation documents can be found here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/169514273/...of-6-18-13-OCR

Awesome
 

That's awesome. I'd like to think that they are dealing with an insurgency within their organization but I'm sure this is self inflicted.

LMAOROF - WTF? Hilarious :D

ha...
WTF can STFU

I don't think the average American is going to find the words "Washington" and "Trust" to belong in the same title, unless it is a bank, and maybe not even then.

TR

New post from Claire Lopez
 

DoJ Slams FBI for Ties with CAIR (Muslim Brotherhood)

by Clare M. Lopez
The Clarion Project
September 22, 2013
http://lopez.pundicity.com/13801/fbi...im-brotherhood

It's been a tough week for the Muslim Brotherhood in America. First came the plaintive wail of "Legislating Fear: Islamophobia and Its Impact in the United States," a 162-page hit list from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) documenting groups and individuals it really wishes wouldn't be quite so effective at pointing out how the doctrine and sacred texts of Islam form the legal basis for Islamic terrorism.

The report's introductory letter from CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad leads off with a dismayed acknowledgement of the dramatic success of the American Laws for American Courts (ALAC) initiative, which has seen six state legislatures – Arizona, Kansas, South Dakota, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Louisiana – pass bills designed to "protect American citizens' constitutional rights against the infiltration and incursion of foreign laws and foreign legal doctrines, especially Islamic Shariah Law."

That CAIR even needed 162 pages to get through the impressive cadre of media outfits, non-profit organizations (among them the Clarion Project), publications, think tanks and their donors, is testament to the vibrancy of the counterjihad movement that strikes such foreboding into the U.S. Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) establishment.

Then the next shoe dropped. On September 19, the Department of Justice Office of the Inspector General released its "Review of FBI Interactions with the Council on American-Islamic Relations." The report is sharply critical of the way the FBI implemented and managed its 2008 policy on curtailing contact with CAIR in the wake of overwhelming evidence about CAIR's ties with HAMAS (the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch) which had been documented presented in 2007-2008 Holy Land Foundation (HLF) HAMAS terror funding trial.

CAIR was named by the Justice Department as an unindicted co-conspirator in the case. The FBI report demonstrated that, contrary to subsequent FBI policy which stipulated that non-investigative interactions between the FBI and CAIR be significantly restricted, a number of FBI field offices (specifically the ones in New Haven, Connecticut; Chicago, Illinois; and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) failed to obey this directive and continued to engage in contact with CAIR.

The DoJ report additionally critiques FBI Headquarters for failing to provide its field offices with clear and consistent guidance, as well as appropriate oversight.

The same day as the DoJ report was released, Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA), the influential Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee's Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (responsible for the FBI's budget) fired off a sharply-worded letter to FBI Director James Comey, citing both conflicting guidance coming from the FBI's Office of Public Affairs (with its emphasis on Muslim "outreach") as well as "outright violations from several field offices."

Wolf singled out the Special Agent in Charge (SAC) in the FBI's Los Angeles field office for his blatantly "insubordinate behavior," described in the report as actually instructing his subordinates "not to abide" by FBI Headquarters policy regarding contact with CAIR.

Moreover, as Wolf notes, given that the DoJ report focuses on only five incidents of continuing FBI field office contact with CAIR, there is no way to know whether, in fact, this is but the tip of an iceberg of policy violations inside the FBI. Wolf's letter to Director Comey concludes with his expectation that people be fired.

Ikhwan scholar Shamim Siddiqi warned that there would be challenges to the process of dawa (proselytizing). Writing of the Muslim Brotherhood's "settlement process" in his 1989 monograph, "The Methodology of Dawah," Siddiqi noted that early gains did not mean "smooth sailing" would last: "In this initial stage there may not be any opposition to Dawah work. For some time the Islamic Movement of America may have some smooth sailing. But with the increase in Dawah efforts, in the number of activities and growth of the strength of the organization, the anti-Islamic forces will take notice of the multifarious activities of the Movement … the fight … may become a challenge for them … [a]larming signals will be raised by the so-called 'free press.'"

The Brotherhood attempts to counter these "anti-Islamic forces" and America's "free press" with a strategy of information dominance, as I described in a recent essay, History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government.

A key element used to achieve information dominance—that is, to control the official understanding of Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood—is the penetration into U.S. government intelligence and security agencies, such as the FBI.

Such tactics are straight out of the field manual on classic intelligence and counterintelligence tradecraft, but they are not only aimed at accessing sensitive information. Rather, such penetration is conducted for the purpose of exerting influence by inserting practiced, smooth-talking Ikhwan operatives into trusted advisory positions close to FBI and other national security leadership.

Indeed, that strategy has made startling progress (to the great detriment of U.S. national security), by significantly altering U.S. domestic (and foreign) policy on Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood.

As documented in Patrick Poole's masterful June 2013 overview of U.S. "outreach" policy toward the Muslim Brotherhood, Blind to Terror: The U.S. Government's Disastrous Muslim Outreach Efforts and the Impact on U.S. Middle East Policy, that "outreach" really goes in one direction only: From the Muslim community to the FBI, in order to communicate what the Muslim community wishes to tell the U.S. intelligence community, but never to be influenced or depended upon for genuine assistance in combating Islamic terrorism.

The only way for the FBI and the rest of the U.S. Intelligence Community to develop an accurate knowledge about CAIR, HAMAS, the Muslim Brotherhood and the jihadist ideology they all share is to expand and enforce the FBI's policy of official distancing itself from CAIR.

Cutting off contact with CAIR, however, but continuing to conduct "outreach" on a regular basis with its fellow HLF case co-conspirators like ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) still leaves the FBI exposed to Ikhwan da'wa, especially in the absence of all the curriculum material and subject matter experts about Islam that have been purged and blacklisted from DoJ and other government training courses since 2012 under Brotherhood supervision.

And while they're at it, reversing the absurdity set forth in the FBI's "Touchstone" document would mark another step in the direction of a sane policy vis-à-vis the Brotherhood. The "Touchstone" document says that membership in an organization—like an Islamic terror group—that engages in violence mustn't be taken as evidence of agreement with that violence, if the group also is engaged in some legitimate advocacy activity.

One week of rough sailing for the American Ikhwan is a good start, but there's a long way to go to reverse the FBI and overall U.S. official culture of dependency on all the wrong sources.

Engaging in the war of ideas requires first studying the enemy's ideas, not purging them from all consideration. Enemy jihadis whose terrorist-supporting activities, ideology and identities have been exposed in a court of law can never be suitable "outreach" partners for law enforcement agencies—especially agencies like the FBI that have been duped and penetrated for far too long by their Ikhwan comrades.

For an alternative list of potential partners that won't lead them down a dawa detour, the FBI would do well to check out the new CAIR report.

On the trail of al-Shabab’s Kenyan recruitment 'pipeline'
 

On the trail of al-Shabab’s Kenyan recruitment 'pipeline'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24263357

"The armed siege at the Westgate shopping mall in Nairobi has focused attention on the al-Qaeda affiliate, al-Shabab. When the attack happened, the BBC's Panorama programme had been investigating the recruitment pipeline of young Muslims through Kenya to join the Islamist group in Somalia.

I meet Makaburi in a fly-infested room not much bigger than a cupboard, in Mombasa, eastern Kenya......"

Now this is what the cleric says "..."There's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. The prophets did not teach us moderation in Islam - Islam is Islam," he said.

"Being a moderate Muslim is accepting what your enemies want you to be."...."

Look at how the reporter frames the cleric's words"..Makaburi makes no apology for his activities and believes they are justified according to his own controversial interpretation of verses in the Koran...."

The story does a fairly good job on detailing the amount of help that is given to the jihad by local Muslims.

Considering that the the FBI falls under the DOJ umbrella that sounds like a bunch of good cop, bad cop, Eric Holder needs to find a fall guy mumbo jumbo.

Crazy people like Michelle Bachman, Steve Emerson, Daniel Pipes and Naiomi Wolfe have been beating this drum for a long time.

And it appears not to be just the FBI:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/09/mu...amophobia.html

Didn’t think you guys would have missed me, anyway contrary to belief I was not at the local salon crying away my problems to my hairdresser. I wasn’t complaining about PT. I idolized you guys and when I read some posts on how all Muslims are Un -American and bad I got a little emotional and I wrote something on the fly. I take full responsibility for that but again I was not whining about some little PT. I diverge, from the topic. I’m an AMERICAN. An AMERICAN who happens to be Muslim. If you don’t like it, that’s your right as an American. I don’t believe in sharia law. I believe in the constitution. I also believe In the Quran. However will I go and commit treason for that fact. HELL NO. Will I go and stop supporting our troops and bill of rights for sharia. HELL NO. Will I go and kill innocent people for Sharia law. HELL to the NO. The fact is that about 1 billion people are Muslim. Yet very very small percentage commits terror. But they are the over whelming majority of the “voice”. For now they represent Islam Until true Muslims must take a very large stand in demonizing these savages, actively supporting wounded warrior and 9/11 charities (etc. , and turn the Taliban into the Westbrook Baptist church. In the sense that no one cares about the WB church because they don’t have that “voice”. That’s what I think are main issues. Thank you for serving this nation. And I do support the right for you to call me a ‘GIRLY-MAN-WANNABE-LOSER- WHOS AFRIAD OF CONFRENTATION’.

-----GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ITS TROOP
------GIVE RESPECT OUT

Glad to see you back GR! You have the courage of your convictions, IMO, and being an independent thinker that is willing to "put it out there" is a key SF trait. "girly-man-wannabe-loser"? Naah, don't think so!

One thing I would like you to consider: I think it was Winston Churchill who said something to the effect that all it takes for tyranny to prevail, is for good men to remain silent. (I'm sure Richard, or one of my other Brothers, will correct the historical context;))

So, in that vein, what are "moderate" Muslims doing? (I am still not convinced there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim). IMO, as a non-Muslim, you either are or you're not. There is no middle ground.

Holy Alex Turbek Batman! What is Edmund Burke.

Good question. I too am interested in GiveRespect's answer.

Friday prayers
 

It begins at Friday prayers - when the clerics begin pushing the jihad line. If the "moderate" Muslims sit there and let it go on and on then they are not "moderates". If they see the old guy talking to young kids and then the kids turn up in Somalia and they don't do something they are not "moderates".

Until they do that they are just inactive jihadies.

While we like to believe in moderate Muslims - remember, to good Muslims they are apostates.

This Muslim Came Around to my Way of Thinking
 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10...ntcmp=HPBucket

A Syrian-born Alabama man says he was a Muslim when a brain aneurysm left him in a prolonged coma, but when he surprised doctors with his recovery, it started him on a path to Christianity.

Karim Shamsi-Basha was raised in Syria with parents he says were tolerant of all faiths. His family practiced Islam mostly culturally, but Shamsi-Basha says he was "very serious” about his religion as a teenager. "I prayed five times a day. I walked to the mosque before sunrise. I fasted the month of Ramadan," Shamsi-Basha told the Christian Post.

Weary of Syrian President Bashar Assad’s regime, Shamsi-Basha immigrated to the U.S. when he was 18, to attend the University of Tennessee. After that, he married, had his first son, and moved to Birmingham, Ala. In 1992, he suffered a brain aneurysm that left him in a coma for almost a month.

When he awoke from the coma, his rare, almost total recovery amazed his neurosurgeon, who told Shamsi-Basha he was extremely fortunate and needed to find out why he survived.

That question started Shamsi-Basha on a 20-year journey that he says led him to Jesus Christ. He began reading the Bible and was baptized in 1996, but he says it took another 10 years of challenges -- including a divorce, his father’s death and becoming homeless -- before he fully accepted becoming a Christian.

Shamsi-Basha has documented that odyssey in a new book, “Paul and Me.” It’s part memoir, part philosophy, including various theologians’ thoughts about Paul, one of the Bible’s most central figures, whose own conversion took place in the Syrian city of Damascus.

Snip

See, GR, I told ya' one of the Brothers would correct me.;) Thanks, MR2, I was only 150 years off. :eek:

I can identify with this whole “Islam is a beast which wishes to devour the west”, because my European culture experienced it. My southern European country was occupied for about 500 years. The Muslim invaders were fought off for 30 years before we were occupied. I grew listening to stories about our national hero who destroyed the Turks left and right until his death. So I understand this whole WAR with Islam. I don’t think were at war with Islam. I think that’s a very short sighted view. It’s my understanding that the strongest point of Special Forces is your ability to understand, adapt, and then teach the local culture you’re in. So I think it would be unproductive to view people as the enemy JUST because of their religion, tampering successful cooperation between you two. In my opinion young poor uneducated men fight America because they have been so successfully been brainwashed by propaganda. To me if it’s not religion, its nationalism, then family, then personal revenge. I don’t think there is any ONE thing that can demise the power of the Taliban. However blaming 1 billion people and demonizing them as traitors isn’t going to help. I’ve never read storied of Harvard educated Muslims fighting for the Taliban. I could be wrong on that please correct me. But I have read about very educated Muslim soldiers fighting and dying in the US military against the Taliban. Infect I’ve read about it on this website. I wouldn’t say we are at war with Islam. But with an international terror group that happens to Islam as propaganda. What if tomorrow a Christian group blows up 5 mosques in Germany, telling the world they have god on their side? What if that christen group blew up a parliament building because it’s not Christian enough citing versus from the bible? What if this international group made up of different nationalities released a tape saying until Europe becomes a center of Christ again, they will continue to attack. IS Europe at war with Christianity or this group? That’s my view, I could be wrong but I’m posting to learn from all of you.

-----GOD BLESS AMEICA AND ITS TROOPS
-----FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEST P4P ON THE PLANET
-----GIVE RESPECT OUT

When was the last time that happened?

The difference is that Christians have not done this to muslim civilians in many years, and muslims are doing it to the rest of the world every day.

Christians and Jews are being persecuted, churches burned, women raped, and children murdered 365 days a year, all in the name of islam.

Where is the accountability?

Are we not all people of the book? When did muslims decide that Christians and Jews were sheep to be slaughtered? Or has this always been the policy?

Did you miss the news from Kenya? This is becoming a global religious war. At least by large numbers of muslims.

And BTW, OBL himself was from a well-eductated, wealthy family. It isn't just the poor and uneducated who are committing the heinous crimes.

I think we need to be Americans first, and members of a religion after that.

TR

I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.

GR,

What is 5% of a billion people? If Muslims don't control or inform on these "radicals" so they can be controlled then the consequences of what happen to the Muslim world fall on the Muslims no matter who they are or what they think.
Will you inform on a Imam that advocates attacks on Christians or Jews? How many in your Mosque or community will fight against them openly. I think if Muslims don't police their own someone else will.

I don't hate all Muslims several I consider friends. One Muslim woman was a guest in our house on Saturday, and I have knowingly had a Muslim friend that was armed behind my back, and was not worried. They are both upset with the idiots, but have taken no action to stop those idiots. A lot if Islam's future is in your hands, but it will not stay in your hands if these attacks continue.

Islam is at war with any other religion/creed....it always has been, it is not a 'moderate' religion by design.
All of the individuals that are killing Christians/rape marriage/burning church's in predominately Islamic countries do not fit the 'terrorist' profile.
They are often folks whipped up by a local Imam that live in that community.
The Police/military that stand by and observe are not 'terrorists'.
The Government officials that enact anti Christian laws (burned Church's may not be rebuilt without Govt. permission etc.) are not terrorists.
They are simply Muslims/Islam in the majority.....this is what you can expect in any majority Islamic State.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl..._exodus-091513

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/wo...ians.html?_r=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ay-silent.html

When was the last time that happened?
The difference is that Christians have not done this to Muslim civilians in many years, and Muslims are doing it to the rest of the world every day.”
No offense but I think you didn’t fully comprehend what I was trying to say , maybe I said it wrong ,but I don’t know how to rewrite my last post again .

“Where is the accountability?”
I mentioned that there needs to be more accountability. So I agree with you

“Are we not all people of the book? When did Muslims decide that Christians and Jews were sheep to be slaughtered? Or has this always been the policy?”
Muslims haven’t decided anything in regards to terrorism. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda’s leadership decides for its local population what goes on and how to treat other people. In fact didn’t Al-Qaeda spring out of the mujahedeen? Weren’t they the pro American capitals loving Muslims we supported. Didn’t we teach them to kill the soviets? Didn’t the corrupt men out of that origination such as UBL take advantage of a war torn poor nation and create a terrorist organization. ITS funny how afghan Muslims during the cold war were the good guys. But now since they spiraled out of control ALL Muslims are bad. It’s not a group which prosecutes its own people to keep them scared for their lives BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that hides in Mosques and Hospitals and schools BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that puts acid on little Muslim girls trying to get to school. BUT ALL MUSLIMS. Its not a group that decided to hijack a 2 planes and commit one of the worst American tragedies BUT ALL MUSLIMS even the ones that died that day.
“I think we need to be Americans first, and members of a religion after that.”
I agree with you 110 percent .

“I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.”
That’s the attitude Nazis had about synagogues, that’s the Attitude Al-Qaeda and its followers had about 9-11. AM I calling you a Nazi or a terrorist? Of course not. But the moment you think like them, is the moment they beat you .

“What is 5% of a billion people? If Muslims don't control or inform on these "radicals" so they can be controlled then the consequences of what happen to the Muslim world fall on the Muslims no matter who they are or what they think“Will you inform on a Imam that advocates attacks on Christians or Jews? How many in your Mosque or community will fight against them openly. I think if Muslims don't police their own someone else will. “In my community that would never happen. An imam talking that nonsense has the grounds of him getting permanently replaced and look like the “village idiot”. However to answer your question yes I would. I would report him and I think have explained how the Muslim community needs to take more action.

And you are trying to convince them how, exactly? Is there a Q&A after prayers? Is there a suggestion box at the door of the mosque? Have you stood up in your community and challenged them to take action? If not, are you willing to?

Pat

I don't believe the Jews were running around Europe raping women, burning up churches, destroying malls, beheading non-Jews, all of which is the cornucopia terror we know as Islam aka the Religion of Peace.

However like the Religion of Peace, the Nazi's and the Japanese ran around the globe raping women, burning up churches, destroying cities, slaughtering millions and singling out groups like the Jews for slaughter.


So to put this in to context......you are saying the folks celebrating V-J Day and V-E Day had the same attitude as the Nazi's and AQI???

Very good response, GR:lifter I think TR hit the nail on the head - we are all children of God (however you define it) and crimes against humanity that are perpetrated in the name of any religion, state, race, group, or cult are, in the end, still crimes against humanity.

"In all things there is an unequal portion of good and evil, the trick is to calculate the ratio and act accordingly" [Jester].

De Oppresso Liber!

GR,
Answer my query...why do average Muslims within Islamic countries participate in or stand by while their Christian neighbors are killed, raped or burned out.
This is happening in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Sudan etc. etc. It cannot happen in Saudi Arabia because they won't even allow Christians to wear a cross, bring a Bible into the Country....they asked our Chaplains (while we were defending their Country) to remove any non Islamic symbols.
You live in the US, Muslims are a slim minority, go to an Islamic Country and see how Christians are treated.
This persecution of Christians has been going on for a very long time.
Don't give me 'People of the Book' stuff either...that early Meccan period stuff was abrogated and you know it.

All Muslims are not terrorists and all Muslims do not practice aggressive Islam.
Islam is flawed in that Muhammad is 'worshipped' if not directly but in 'fact'.
He is the most perfect human being and to be emulated.....and from this the terrorists spring as Muhammad by his own definition was a terrorist.

Why was every female soldier PW sexually abused? Why not, Muhammad said 'what you take with your right hand'.....and those taken in battle are 'property'...he did it, he condoned it and gave female slaves as booty to his followers.
Taken in an ancient context this was the norm....but in Islam Muhammad is the perfect man and what he did is not taken in any historical context....Al Azhar University and the Imams in SA continually issue Fatwa's based upon what M did then that is applicable now......there is no 'well, that was the attitude long ago, we've 'evolved'.
Raiding the Caravans still takes place today as does mutilation under sharia law....why were many of the victims in Kenya mutilated....sharia allows for mutilation of criminals and enemies.
People of the Book........not my book.

Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it -- Kurt Hofmann.

If evil is inherent within a religious/social conscript how does one kill that except from within?

I get it...it's our fault
 

Weren’t they the pro American capitals loving Muslims we supported. Didn’t we teach them to kill the soviets? Didn’t the corrupt men out of that origination such as UBL take advantage of a war torn poor nation and create a terrorist organization. ITS funny how afghan Muslims during the cold war were the good guys. But now since they spiraled out of control ALL Muslims are bad. It’s not a group which prosecutes its own people to keep them scared for their lives BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that hides in Mosques and Hospitals and schools BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that puts acid on little Muslim girls trying to get to school (GR wrote)

I can respect that fact that GR keeps coming back with his opinion but this is getting old. GR, get a Koran,a Reliance of the Traveler, copy of Milestones and read the damn things. What you are saying is apostasy in the Islamic world, period. You're tenacity is appreciated, however, at this point in the debate you need to have a minimal understanding of YOUR religion and you clearly do not. Web site after web site have been posted here for your benefit which I assume you have not looked at.

I agree with a previous post, if they start blowing up mosques (they being anyone other than muslims) I will be celebrating with a beer....and a pulled pork sandwich.

You raise a very good point there Bro! And that brings me to a discussion I had with 98G this afternoon. Let's consider the possibility that the majority of Muslims do not take the teachings of Islam literally- they are "culturally" Muslim. They want to live their lives in peace and strive for the same things we all do. As a case in point, are all Catholics literal practicing Catholics? No, of course not. Many make life choices that are not in keeping with Catholic doctrine - they are Catholics by "culture". Could the same be true for Muslims? Logic would say yes.

If we accept the notion of "cultural" Muslims, then do they not represent a huge opportunity for us? What I am suggesting is that in this line of thinking "cultural" Muslims can be viewed as potential assets to rise up against the Islamic extremists to quash them with extreme prejudice. Isn't this exactly what we do in SF? Are we missing a force multiplication opportunity here? Maybe we have been looking at this whole issue through the wrong end of telescope?

Let's try out some new thinking on the issue and see where that leads.

I'd say there is some possibility to that except that Muhammad covered that base a long time ago.
Any Muslim that takes the side of a non Muslim over another Muslim commits sin...it is takfir....there is no exclusion for the subject matter.
Any Muslim that chooses non Muslim friends over Muslim friends is committing a sin.
It has to come from within Islam and those Muslims must, in fact, ignore or change their own doctrine.......throw out large elements of the Koran/Sira/Hadith and change their view/concept of Muhammad's actions as 'perfect' under any circumstance.
Fat chance.

core principles
 

When a cultural Catholic suddenly embraces his or her religion they do not blow up innocent (or guilty) people, commit suicide, throw acid on people, etc, etc. This can be said for EVERY other religion with the exception of islam. There is nothing in Christian, Jewish, Buddist doctrine that compels believers to harm, in any way, those that disagree with them. Sure, you can be a pain in the ass and generally unpleasent to be around but you CANNOT kill others, pretty simple rules. Additionally, to answer why there has been no uprising in the muslim religion against these terrorist groups is because they comply with Sharia law, to protest against them would be in direct violation of that law as well as the koran. If you want to do the SF thing, you would convert them to another....any other, religion.

damn
 

Should have just waited for PRB to make his post.

I try to make points, but at the end of the day almost all of you reply to me with "Islam sucks balls, Muhammad can blow my pet fish named Muhammad sucks” I think I have many valid points and they are almost never answered ,so I don’t know what to write anymore . I understand what the general attitude is, and it won’t change. At all. So in conclusion all Muslims are terrorists and all Muslims who aren’t fighting are actually inactive jihadists. We must put all Muslim citizens in internment camps to keep them from turning on us. Also, we must cut foreign aid to prominently Muslim countries because they will use those resources to attack us. Finally we must nuke Mecca to stop this plague known as Islam. And man when the mosques do get blown up I’m going to celebrate by eating a pig … Alive. And call it”Muhammad Gives Great Rim Jobs” (no fatwa’s were issued in the making of this post).
------STILL GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ITS TROOPS
------ WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO TOP 5 HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP OF ALL TIME
------ GIVE RESPECT OUT

GR,
You never addressed any of the comments I made, you only made very general points we've all heard before.
I don't believe you really have an in depth understanding of your own Religion.

If you understood the relationship of the Koran to the Hadith/Sira and how that is interpreted by the gold standard of Islamic jurisprudence (Al Azhar University as an example) you wouldn't have asked some of the questions or made the 'points' you did.

Some of us speak Arabic and have worked in Islamic countries for nigh on to 30 years.
These are not abstract observations.

You are 18. We are only asking you to defend what is written in your Holy Book. You are here for a reason. It's up to you to tell us what that reason is. And, tell us what this means: "Confused young men make the best......"

Pat

GR,
You never addressed any of the comments I made, you only made very general points we've all heard before.
I don't believe you really have an in depth understanding of your own Religion.

If you understood the relationship of the Koran to the Hadith/Sira and how that is interpreted by the gold standard of Islamic jurisprudence (Al Azhar University as an example) you wouldn't have asked some of the questions or made the 'points' you did.

Some of us speak Arabic and have worked in Islamic countries for nigh on to 30 years.
These are not abstract observations. ‘

I guess I don’t have a true understanding. I guess I’m a middle class white boy that doesn’t truly understand what is going on in the world. Most of you have first hand experienced I can only dream about. I’m tired that this is going nowhere. Maybe it’s both.

‘I agree with a previous post, if they start blowing up mosques (they being anyone other than muslims) I will be celebrating with a beer....and a pulled pork sandwich.’
You’re just a plain ignorant. I don’t know what to say anymore but I get it. I truly do.
‘ You are 18. We are only asking you to defend what is written in your Holy Book. You are here for a reason. It's up to you to tell us what that reason is. And, tell us what this means:’Im actually here, because I wanted to be here. No one forced me (not saying you did).I failed, I tired and I failed . I TRIED.I really did .I thought I explained …some-thing but I failed.
‘And, tell us what this means: Confused young men make the best......"
You earned the tab. You tell me
Give all of my respect to Trapper john, you’re the man .Not excluding anyone here even you hacksaw, like you care, you all are truly men among men who deserve the respect of all Americans. And most importantly, thank you. You are the men people should look up to not Kayne West or Lindsey lohans coke addiction .
In the end I sum up my opinion with
'Only idiots simplify to justify stupidity'-GiveRespect (actually quoted myself..kinda weird)

---ALLAH BLESS ALL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ITS TROOPS
---BOXING>MMA
--- GIVE RESPECT OUT

No I didn't. I didn't even try. And I wouldn't if I had it to do over again. I had other plans. I respect these guys as brothers-in-arms as they do me, fly-boys, armor, artillery, and supply. It's the uniform, not the patch or tab.

Buck up! Support us, or join us. Your choice. ;)

Pat

p.s.: I joined the Army when I was 17.

You are absolutely correct, IF this is a static culture. I am questioning that view of Islam as static. Are we not seeing some evidence of changes in the culture today? Doesn't GR represent an example of a Muslim that does not take the tenets of Islam literally and inappropriate today? Didn't Christianity evolve from the days of the Inquisition? Couldn't Islam fracture into different sects just as Christianity did? As I asked earlier, are we missing an opportunity here to exploit and hasten a cultural change? If we continue to view this as a binary in black or white terms doesn't that create a no-win scenario?

Not too many things that I can think of are truly static and certainly not a culture of human beings.;)