Great quote, from one of my favorite movies.

TR

The wife brought home...I can't even remember the title, I've pushed it out of my mind...the gay cowboy movie. Made it halfway through and I couldn't take it any more -- I had to watch Outlaw Josie Wales and Ulzana's Raid back-to-back.

Mugwump,
While your working at sharpening...
I just hand sharpened a batch of knives today on the stone and noticed a small detail (that I've always dealt with as a matter of standard procedure but never articulated before) that may be of help:
When you get some small steel chips coming off the blade onto the stone use more WD-40 and a paper towel to wipe them off. Then put more WD-40 on the stone and keep going.

If one continues sharpening with these hard steel chips on the stone they, being the same hardness as the blade, make little micro flat spots on your edge as you run over them again and again.

Mr. Harsey...

So comforting to hear you admit that. I began to believe that I was going to require a ride on the short bus to a sharpening school for the gifted.

I've only used my Spyderco Tri-Angle sharpener in the past. I haven't purchased the stones that you've mentioned yet, but I did try my DMT diamond whetstones recently and have had many trials and frustrations with them. I must say, though, that after much patient practice, I am able to get my knives to hair-popping sharpness finally. I can't imagine how these things will cut when I finally break down and buy the stones that you suggest.

This is good info...thanks!!!

Bill, thanks for this. After practicing on the kitchen knives I'm finally ready to sharpen my Uncle Ray's WWII KA-BAR. A while back, he asked me to put an edge onto it and pass it on to a young man in the field -- it's headed off to my Godson. It'll be hand delivered, that knife has soaked up a lot of history.

That's a very honorable thing to do.



I've always said, it's "Mom, The American Flag, KA-BAR and Apple pie" in terms of things to never speak ill of.

Ray was a very honorable and modest man who led a helluva good life. Many moons ago, I got smart enough to try to emulate him -- my life has gone a lot smoother since. :)

Sharpening Demonstration
 

A few days ago I had some shop guests who asked to see me sharpen a knife. A brief search turned up no dull or damaged knives to sharpen so I pulled a scrapped, fully heat treated 4140 steel, .30 caliber rifle barrel from under the bench and put it in the vise.
Next I took a very good condition prototype 6.5 inch CPM S-30V blade and started taking thin shavings off the rifle barrel.
This wasn't damaging the blade enough to make sharpening difficult so the next step was to chop straight down into the rifle barrel putting a series of nice cuts across the top of the barrel steel and doing some visible damage to the blades sharpening bevel in the form of fine nicks and chips.

Now we had a knife that all agreed needed some sharpening.

The rifle barrel was taken out of the wood jawed vise and the Norton two sided stone was clamped into place. Using the medium Carborundum (silicon carbide, colored grey/black)) side of the stone, I oiled it up with WD-40 and started sharpening. Lots of WD-40 works well too.

The Norton Carborundum side cuts pretty quick and is a friable surface which means it breaks down fast continually exposing fresh sharp silicon carbide particle edges of the stone to your steel. This is also a good place to be very sure of your sharpening technique so you don't dig grooves in your stone.

After getting all but a single remaining micro chip sharpened out of the blade, the stone was turned over to the "Fine India" side and the final sharpening work finished resulting in a blade that would slice note book paper from top to bottom.

The sharpening took about 15 minutes which is a long time for a single blade but it showed my visiting dignitaries that a blade with real problems could be restored to it's original high sharpness by use of stones without having to use a belt grinder.

Silicon Carbide Names...
 

The correct term for the fast cutting Norton silicon carbide stone I use is, "Norton Crystolon, medium".

In 1893 a man named Edward Goodrich Acheson invented and recieved the United States patent for the process by which silicon carbide is made, he then went on to invent and patent the oven that did this.
His patents are recognized as some of the most important patents resposible for the modern industrial age because these abrasives could cut hard steel to high accuracy in machine processes. The name of Mr. Achesons silicon carbide was "Carborundum".

Sometimes I get confused.

Street Light Bulb
 

Forgive me if I did not see this in the previous post but I thought I might run this by ya'll. Have any of ya'll used a street light bulb? I have a Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto that I carry everyday and the light bulb makes it razor sharp after a few hits. If anyone knows why this thing works please let me know. Thanks-

Because the glass is harder than the steel.:rolleyes:

TR

There's your problem right there, you need a real knife and not a airsoft childrens knife.:rolleyes:

Team Sergeant

Rosie
 

But, but, Rosie said that steel doesn't melt, ever in the history of steel making. :p

Recon 1
 

The Recon 1 ain't too shabby if you ask me. I watched the field test video that Cold Steel published and they sold me on it. I haven't tried any of the test to check the reliabilty of it though. It has superior cutting power and sharpens rather easily. I wouldn't put it in the airsoft class...

I saw a video once on a 120 mpg carburetor insert. Looked real shiny.

I think I can get you a real deal on it if you are interested in buying the rights.

Seriously, I have a Cold Steel Trailmaster around here somewhere, and if I needed a visually impressive knife that cost less than $100, that might be one I would consider.

Sorry, but Lynn Thompson isn't selling me anything else.

IMHO, the Tanto point is not particularly effective, except visually. Kind of like shuriken.:rolleyes:

If I need a real knife that I could count on, I would look to Harsey, Reeve, or one of the other blademasters. You might want to look through this forum before proceeding. We are getting Mr. Harsey's sharpening thread off track.

Cold Steel is a decent budget product with a lot of hype.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Slander.......why not to buy from Lynn Thompson
 

Here's Lynns latest attack on Mick Strider. Is this not slander ? Since it bears on the last four posts take a read, then back to Mr. Harsey's thread on field sharpening.

[Edited to remove link. TR]

Here we go.

Another diversion off topic.:rolleyes:

In regards to Lynn Thompson's comments, let me say that I have known Mick for more than five years.

In all of that time, he has been a gentleman and has kept his word. He has never claimed to be anything other than what he is. He has been generous, as well as honest to a fault. He has not denied his record, though I am sure that some of it has embarrassed him. Who among us has not done stupid things at the age he was when that occurred? Probably involved at least two of the three Ws. Would Lynn like to have all of the embarrasing moments from his past dredged up and posted on the internet by a competitor?

The popularity of his knife designs, distressing as they may be to Mr. Thompson, are not really Mick's fault, nor are they a crime in the free market economy we all enjoy, including Lynn.

Where has Mick claimed to be a combat vet? IIRC, he was a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment, though he was (as he freely admits) never tabbed or deployed to combat. Regardless, that makes him a Special Operations soldier.

To bring this up and post someone's past transgressions on a web site strike me as more of a statement about Mr. Thompson and his personality than Mick Strider's.

As far as going to Tactical Forums to get further info, that ranks right up there with getting my news from the National Enquirer. Very few people at that website have any tactical experience, and they create ad hominem personal attacks when confronted by anyone with a differing opinion, as some members here have discovered the hard way. No thanks.

Hope that clears things up for you.

TR

TR,
Thank you for removing the link to CS. I agree with everything you say regarding Mick Strider whom I've known for some years now.
Yes Mick Strider and Cold Steel is a legitimate topic but please not in this sharpening thread.

First, any knife at all is better than no knife. I do not make judgements about what knife someone has to work with but I do have preferences based on performance, especially when that knife is life critical equipment in an emergency.

The purpose of this sharpening thread is to give the knife user a chance to sharpen whatever he has on him.

wfraser, I've never handled a street light bulb. Are you talking about the part that glows or the cover?

[QUOTE=Bill Harsey]
The purpose of this sharpening thread is to give the knife user a chance to sharpen whatever he has on him. QUOTE]

I have tried just about everything for sharpening that has come done the pike, including everything posted in this most excellent thread, on many knives of various steels, styles and uses.

Bench sharpening has always been with my carborundum stone.

I've had mixed results field sharpening with diamond sharpeners. I'm talking about the 1" wide or folding types, which I like because they are light and easy to carry. I've gotten better results with EZE-Lap than with DMT sharpeners. It seems like the perforated face of the DMT sharpener gives me trouble and does not seem to cut as fast as the EZE-Lap. Could this be a result of poor technique or does the steel face make it just take longer with the DMT?

The 2nd question is wether it is worthwhile finishing off sharpening with an extra fine 1200 grit diamond, or is it better to stop with the 600 grit, considering the value of the "micro-teeth" left on the final edge? I used to finish with a steel, but am getting away from that.

I don't recall seeing this answered previously in this thread. Apologies if I missed it somewhere.

Indian,
Light and easy to carry are exactly why I recommend the diamond stones for field use.
My first rule of noting a design issue (complaint) is to, if possible, take it to the manufacturer first. I have spoken to the past owner of DMT Diamond stones about the holes and was told I was the first person to ever bring this up. Thank you for noticing this.
I have also had concerns with the holes in the DMT sharpeners. They still cut good but when going around a curved edge I think the edge tends to possibly hit the front of the holes and not the surface. I have to be very careful holding my angle to avoid this. The DMT products are good stuff but I'd also like to see them in "solid" coating.

Do not go too fine with the final edge finishing, this takes away the aggressive micro saw tooth edge that provides the best cutting in field conditions.
This is why I use the Norton Fine India stone to finish on, it is a 320 mesh particle size surface.

Like Bill I have a Norton Med/Fine India mounted on my workbench, a gift from a CW3 that I sharpened a Argentinian short sword for. I also cut into the stone and pull back and use lamp oil that Bill sold me on some years ago. The final edge with a Norton Fine India is about the best I have found. Some years ago Sal Glesser, Spyderco knives, was amazed when Wayne Goddard used one of his knives to slice through a piece of rope like it was butter. The microscopic teeth the Norton Fine India puts on the edge of your blade are just as Bill describes, an awesome cutting edge. But being truthfull, I do not use it so much anymore as I have to go downstairs, and have a EZE-Lap dual hone right at my desk, Medium Grit on one side, Super Fine on the other, folds like a BaliSong. I used to carry one of the very small EZE-LAPs in my E&E kit, but like the longer sharpening surface of the dual hone and it keeps my hand further from the edge of the blade. I also like it as I use a lot of my knives, or ones I am testing to prepare food, and no oil is needed for the EZE_LAP, and it is light. I carry it in my day pack everywhere I travel. I noticed BadMuther saying he could not sharpen his KaBar. Sometimes if you have a softer steel it is harder to sharpen them as the edge just seems to roll from one side to the other. On the other side I started with an Arkansas whetstone and could not sharpen my Ben Hibben Jungle Fighter, tried and tried. Problem was the Arkansas stone does not remove much steel, and I would get worried I was not doing it right and stop. When i switched to a Norton stone, no more problems.

Thanks for the response sirs. Sounds like I am doing the same thing as both of you, with the same stones, so I believe that indicates that I must continue to refine my technique. Probably the most important parts for me are patience and maintaining a constant, proper angle.

I also have found that lamp oil or kerosene works better on the Norton stones than WD-40. Back to reading.

Bob

Late Reply
 

Mr. Harsey

Sorry for the late reply I just haven't check back recently. The part that I am talking about is the actual bulb out of a street light. It is about 6" in lenght and maybe 1" diameter. The only problem is the fact that it may break in the field or any ruff usage. I have purchased a few expensive sharpeners but none compare to the light bulb...go figure.

Before you go climb a pole, check with your local electrical service. They usally have tons of them. Thanks- Wilkes

knife sharpener
 

If you can find one, an old glass coca-cola bottle will put a razor edge on a knife.

Knife Sharpening
 

Mr. Harsey,

The other day I had my Recon 1 out and my light bulb and could not get a edge on the knife. A friend of mine told me to try a car window...??

Well....I went and rolled my window down half way and started slicing away.
After a few minutes the blade became sharp. I have seen sharper however it did the trick and seemed field worthy.

If you get a chance give it a try and tell me what's your input. Thanks -

That one is already up here, maybe in the Redneck Engineering thread if not this one.

Look at Post #9 on this thread.

TR

Here's another good primitive technique that requires no rocks, glass, commercial hones, etc. Find a small hardwood sapling about 2 inches in diameter and split it in two with your knife. Smooth the heartwood side down until you have a good flat surface. Take the point of your knife and make multiple small holes in the flat surface, then grind in a pasty mixture of sand and water. These improvised hones are slow but eventually become saturated with the gritty material and provide a decent pocket hone capable of touching up the edge of your blade. One thing to remember with this process is to stroke away from the blade so you don't gouge the wood. Any wire edges produced can be removed on a strop or smooth rock. These sharpening devices take some time to wear in but are really useful when nothing else is available. As a side note to this technique, primitive cultures used the same principle to drill holes in stone by using a fibrous stalk dipped in a paste of sand and water. Constantly adding grit to the hand drill and having a sincere amount of patience eventually punctured the rock.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, very interesting!!

This is good stuff. Thank you Jeff!

Thanks for the bandaids!
 

Bill,
Thanks for the extra bandaids the other day, they came in very handy. You will be happy to know that I sharpened 60 blades today without cutting myself...LOL. Took your advice and added a combined light and magnifier to the process. It worked out very well and we are doing the newspaper test on every blade.

Say hi to the folks for me.

Mil-Dot

"a sincere amount of patience"

That is a fine turn of phrase.

Your welcome.
Nice change to hand someone else a bandaid for once.
That's a lot of blades to do in one stand.
Newspaper works better for testing sharpness than ones arm. No, I won't put a smiley face here.
You are getting the edges extremely sharp too.

Since I am the new guy, playing "catch -up" on many of the posts adn this one seems to be at it end of the conversation...

I'll add this gem of information that was jokingly put out during a land nav class at the Q.

"Gentlemen; If you ever find yourself hopeless lost here or in any part of the world, take off you racksack. Pull out you field knife and shaping stone, begin to shapen your high speed knife... within minutes you well have a half dozen guys pop out of the wood works to let you how to do it better!"

enjoy gents!!

I'm going to write that in felt pen on the shop wall :D

Thank you.

That is funny as hell!

Sharpening Drawing
 

Here is a quick drawing I did to show what a dulled edge looks like in cross section and the material to be removed to restore sharpness.

I ran a seafood plant for about 10 years where we hand cut our fish. We were a Japanese owned company so we used a Japanese made santoku knife. I can't remember what grade Stainless was used. I used to sharpen them using a belt sander with a 400 grit belt then buff them out on a jeweler's wheel. For lubricant, I used a mixture of 2 parts parafin with one part Crisco shortening melted together which I poured into loaf pans to make bricks. The procedure was to make 3 or four passes across the belt at a 30 degree angle on each side of the edge. Then make 5 or 6 passes over the buffing wheel on each side. The polishing was the key. The damn things came out as sharp as scalpels. You could literally touch the blades lightly and draw blood.

Out in the field, I carry a whetstone, using water to lube the plade when I skin out a pig. I use a 3 inch Case for field dressing and skinning them. Then a Sawzall to quarter them so they fit in the cooler...All hail the Sawzall!

My two favorite sharpeners for field use are the Eze Lap Sportsmen diamond rod/brass handle and DMT two sided paddle sharpener, fine/super fine. With these two i can bring my edges back in no time. I strop on my pants leg.
Scott

dummy-proof
 

I'm in the category of 'terrible knife sharpeners' as well. My problem is the technical know-how and just memorizing the angle at which the blade needs to be honed to for manual work.

Sometime i'll make a few passes each way, say ten a side-check the blade and it's worse than before.

I bought a cheapo- 17.99 "Redi Edge" sharpener which, if you've never seen it, has the same type of set up as a very small handheld kitchen block sharpener. It's only a few inches long and the diamond sharpener is built into a 2 sided whetstone, which i'm guessing is for re-conditioning the blade( of an ax, say) or some sort of manual work well above my level of expertise.

I usually lube the blade with a few drops of olive oil before and after. I prefer olive oil for CLP or other lubricants because though they may work better, they're not fit for consumption. If i want to slice bread, make a PB&J sandwich with my blade and it's something to think about. I've heard some use butter for just this reason but butter has high salt content and could rust the blade.

This seems like an older thread but maybe someone will stumble upon it and learn a thing or two as i just did.

Bear

BearW,

Did you read this whole thread?
Yes it takes some time and I am going to re-read everything I've written here to try and make it better.

Some thoughts on your post:
As I hope I've already stated, the purpose of any lube on a sharpening stone is to keep the blade particles that have been abraded off the edge while sharpening from sticking to the surface of the sharpening stone because said particles, as they load into the surface of the stone, keep it from working.

What I don't want stuff on my sharpening stones is something that is going to smell bad later.
Anything we lube a stone with can be wiped or washed off of a blade.

Personally I think a little WD-40 makes my sandwich taste better.