TR, exactly my point; thanks for the back-up.

Smokin' Joe, being one of the unwashed masses, that means they would still deliberately screw with me, the consumer, so I couldn't use readily available mil-spec parts. Ain't that nifty of them?

I totally agree, its bullshit.

LMT will sell me a base carbine with "no bells or whistles" (their words) for 1050.00 which is their mil discount for me.

Thats before I get a FFL to place the order and recieve it for me not to mention waiting months to get it. Interestingly all but one of the FFLs on the LMT website for my state no longer carry their product.

Id most likely prefer a 1/9 twist as much of the ammo Id shoot (for practice) will not be the heavier grain-

If you read my review of the LMT 10.5" carbine, I think you will know what I think.

I took it to a shooting school for a class, and it was the only shorty there that ran reliably.

Try it, you will like it. And you get what you pay for.

Ask for the match two-stage trigger as well as ther SOPMOD buttstock, if you can afford it.

If I couldn't afford the LMT, I would look at Rock River as a good second choice.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

My apologies for not being clear. You have to go to a specific dealer, not the factory. The cop I spoke with bought his complete LMT carbine from Pete at ar15salesDOTcom. Give him a call and tell him you are mil and are calling in reference to his ad here: wwwDOTar15DOTcom/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=255335. I have purchased two LMT lowers from him and am a satisfied customer.

Just as a point of reference, here's the breakdown on my pieced together new LMT carbine:
- Defender 2000 lower, single stage trigger, Tango Down grip (now Ergo), Gen II M4 stock on a mil-spec tube (with the castle nut staked at the factory, just like Colt), $330 shipped from Pete, plus $15 local FFL transfer fee. See if he will discount the two-stage trigger and SOPMOD stock for you.
- 16" M4 upper, bolt carrier group (properly staked gas key, also just like Colt), charging handle, plus DPMS CAR handguards, $572 shipped from a different dealer.
- Total out the door, $917, with no sights. And I remember the cop telling me he got his rifle cheaper with his LEO discount from Pete. When you compare Pete's price, remember it includes the LMT rear BUIS, which is around $120. You are also getting one 30rd mag, a sling, and a manual, none of which is included in my price.

Sir,
Thanks for the advice, Ill go with either of those two.

Ive read your essay on carbines and see that you recommend the 1/9 twist for lower grain ammo. Though I prefer the LMT carbine a bit more than the RR, LMT only comes with a 1/7 twist which might pose a problem as I shoot a variety of ammo mostly due to affordability and availability.

So thats my conundrum-

CCRN - Get what you want and quit worrying about barrel twist. 1/7 will shoot 55 gr. just fine; especially for anything you're likely to do with a carbine in the US. I have everything from 1/7 to 1/12 and ALL of them shoot 55 gr. just fine. 55 gr. is "blasting ammo" good for plinking/training at reduced ranges (IMNSHO < 150m = reduced ranges; especially when most "blasting" is done at <100m). It's primary value is affordability. If you want social ammo, use something else (and re-zero the weapon!). POA/POI shifts whenever you change bullets. FWIW all of my "plinkers" (carbines are plinkers :p ) are 1/9 for economic reasons, e.g. adequate quality, availability, and reasonable price. I'm currently using an RRA and a "frankengun" and they both run like sewing machines. TR and others have discussed the pitfalls of the various approaches (specifically the frankengun) and their advice should be heeded - caveat emptor. I can't justify the expense of an LMT right now, though I an jelous of TR's. RRA is a quality product for a reasonable price and they can be counted on to fix unfortunate "hiccups" (have to admit it's annoying when that happens and QA/CS are not up to expectations). I've owned several Colts over the years; I can't justify ever buying another one. My .02 - Peregrino

Unless you are a match shooter, the 1x7" should stabilize most of the rounds you will find just fine.

You have to decide whether you want the ability to shoot the 69 gr. plus bullets, which due to overall length include the military M856 Tracer round. If so, then you really need the 1x7". If you never plan to shoot the heavier and more expensive rounds, the 1x9" will work just fine.

Unless you are competing, I would look for a military-type 16" barrel from LMT, RRA, or Colt with the chrome lined bore.

HTH.

TR

I just saw that RRA now offers what appears to be a true government profile (light under the handguards) chrome-lined barrel, even though they call it a Lightweight. Offered in 1/9 or 1/7 as a $40 option on the rifles.

OK I know what to do now.

Thanks once again for the advice, I appreciate it. Ill place an order monday and post picks when it comes-