I seem to remember reading a book once that a CIA guy suggested in mid 80's to put defective plastic explosives in cars of Syrian diplomats and make it look like it was Hizballah so that the Syrian leadership would go after them the way they did the Muslim Bros. He couldn't even get approval for the defective explosives.

Maybe approval would be more forthcoming if it were extremist vs extremist (no diplomats). Of course I have no experience to back up this baseless speculation, but it might be more difficult to pit extremist vs extremist since they seem to be so interelated/interconnected.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Article...le.asp?ID=17602
Quote:
The California Suicide Bomber

By Daniel Pipes
FrontPageMagazine.com | April 4, 2005According to a remarkable article by Scott Macleod in the April 4 issue of Time Magazine, the suicide bomber who carried off the worst atrocity in

Iraq since the collapse of the Saddam Hussein regime was a 32-year-old Jordanian who had lived for two years in California. Ra’ed Mansour al-Banna was born in Jordan in 1973 and grew up in a religious, economically prosperous merchant family. He studied law at the university, graduating in 1996, and then started his own law practice in the Jordanian capital of Amman. After three years, he gave it up and in 1999 he worked a half year without pay for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Amman, helping Iraqis who fled Saddam Hussein’s tyranny.

In 2001, sometime before 9/11, Banna received a visa and moved to the United States, where he apparently lived in California for nearly two years, moving from one unskilled job to another – factory worker, bus driver, and pizza maker. According to his father, Ra’ed even worked “in one of the Californian airports.” If Ra’ed did not make it economically, he seemed to fit in well, traveling to such destinations as the Golden Gate Bridge and the World Trade Center, growing his hair long, and taking up American popular music. Photographs sent to his family in Jordan show Banna eating a crab dinner, walking on a beach in California, mounted on a motorcycle, and standing in front of a military helicopter while holding an American flag. He even planned to marry a Christian woman until her parents demanded that the wedding take place in a church.



Banna apparently loved America, reporting back to his family about the people’s honesty and kindness; “They respect anybody who is sincere.” Talal Naser, a young man engaged to one of Ra’ed’s sisters, explained how Ra’ed “loved life in America, compared to Arab countries. He wanted to stay there.” His father, Mansour, recounted that, despite the September 11 attacks, Ra’ed “faced no problems with his American workmates, who liked him.”



Banna visited home in 2003 but on his return to the United States he was denied entry, accused of falsifying details on a visa application. He returned to Jordan and became withdrawn, holing up in a makeshift studio apartment, sleeping late, and displaying a new interest in religion. He began praying five times a day and listening to the Koran. In November 2004, he went on pilgrimage to Mecca, returning to Saudi Arabia in January 2005.



On Jan. 27, Banna crossed into Syria, presumably on the way to Iraq. He apparently spent February with Sunni jihadis in Iraq, during which time he called home several times, with the last call on about Feb. 28.



Feb. 28 also happens to be the date when Banna suited up as a suicide bomber and blew himself up at a health clinic in Al-Hilla, killing 132 people and injuring 120, the worst such attack of the 136 suicide bombings that have taken place since May 2003. On March 3, the family received a call informing them of Ra’ed’s fate. “Congratulations, your brother has fallen a martyr.”



A friend revealed that Banna became politically radicalized against American policies in the Muslim world while living in the United States. He was especially distraught about developments in Iraq. A neighbor, Nassib Jazzar, recalled Banna upset with the coalition occupation. “He felt that the Arabs didn’t have honor and freedom.’”



The father notes that Ra’ed wore Western-style clothing, rarely went to mosque, and was ignorant of the names of local sheikhs. “I am shocked by all of this because my son was a very quiet man, not very religious and more interested in pursuing his law profession and building a future for himself.”



As Time cautiously concludes from this tale,

On the basis of accounts given by his family, friends and neighbors, Ra’ed apparently led a double life, professing affection for America while secretly preparing to join the holy war against the U.S. in Iraq. “Something went wrong with Ra’ed, and it is a deep mystery,” says his father Mansour, 56. “What happened to my son?”

Ra’ed al-Banna’s biography inspires several observations:



(1) When it comes to Islamist terrorists, appearances often deceive. That Banna was said to “love life in America,” be “not very religious,” and be interested in “building a future for himself” obviously indicated nothing about his real thinking and purposes. The same pattern recurs in the biographies of many other jihadis.



(2) Moving to the West often spurs Muslims to despise the West more than they did before they got there. This appears to be what happened with Banna.



(3) Taking up the Islamist cause, even to the point of sacrificing one’s life for it, usually happens in a discreet manner, quite unobservable even to a person’s closest relatives.



In brief, Banna’s evolution confirms the point I have made repeatedly about the regrettable but urgent need to keep an eye on all potential Islamists and jihadis, which is to say Muslims.

Daniel Pipes (www.DanielPipes.org) is director of the Middle East Forum and author of Miniatures (Transaction Publishers).

Another case that fits into what Sageman says in his book.

I just finished the rest of Barnett. I can now concentrate on Sageman.

MFO. Have you been to SouthEast Asia?

As for millions traveling to Saudi Arabia, it might be worth noting that there are over a billion Muslims. So, even if 10 million travel to Saudi Arabia, that is less than 1% of Islam.

As for Saudi Arabia being the heart and soul of Islam, the same could be said of Jeruselum and Christianity. So how many Christians take their direction from Israel? Do you? I don't.

GH,

While on active duty I spent five years in 5th Gp and six in 1st Gp. You do know the area orientation of both these active duty Special Forces Groups?

I traveled in both SW and SE Asia, and even spent some time fighting a war in SW Asia.
I lived in SE Asia for three years, used to speak, read and write Thai, now just speak Thai.
To answer your question in a little more detail, I've spent years studying both these geographic areas, their indigenous peoples, their economic, government, military, religion, etc etc etc etc.

TS

MFO?

The Dead Horse
 

Guys;

It looks like the horse has been beaten to death. One poor old hoof is sticking up flappin' in the breeze. Everybosy is now doing their best to blast that hoof off the leg.

Time will tell. Keep your eyes on the smaller countries of northern Europe over the next few years.

Of course there will be no prblem in SEA. After China takes Taiwan they will expand out and take most of the area. They have a way to take care of most western religions that seems to work well for them.

Pete

Why isn't it possible that al-Banna (POS) did love life in America, but turned against it when he was denyed re-entry? I have no problem in theory with the author's observations, just that the friends observations are treated like the ISO measure of intention.

MFO - Multinational Force of Observers.

And I've lived in SE Asia for the last ten years.

Sir:

An excerpt from Crisis of Islam, by Bernard Lewis:

"....For Muslims, as we in the West sometimes tend to forget, the Holy Land par excellence is Arabia and especially the Hijaz and it's two holy cities - Mecca, where the Prophet was born, and Medina, where he established the first Muslim state.... The Prophet Muhammad lived and died in Arabia, as did his immediate successors, the caliphs, in the headship of the community..... For Muslims, no piece of land once added to Islam can ever be renounced, but none can compare in significance with Arabia and Iraq. And of these two, Arabia is by far the more important...." (pp. xxix, Introduction)

A few other points:

Both Christianity and Judaism, not long after their inception, experienced periods of diaspora and persecution. This forced both of those churches to de-emphasize the geographical significance in maintaining the faith, because their shrines were for long periods denied them. The reformation furthered the de-emphasis on geography in Christianity.

The Islamic world did not meet with such hardships in its inception. It had centuries of uninterrupted conquest and success in which to cement the relationship of the religion with the region and it's shrines. The fact that all Muslims still kneel towards Mecca is symbolic of the predominance of those places as the heart of the Islamic world.

Furthermore, while the majority of Muslims do live in SE Asia, there is an overwhelming dominance on Islamic scholarship and intellectual leadership within the ME, both historically (it was and is the center of Islamic jurisprudence and philosophy) and today.

Read more about Islam and Muslims than Lewis. His books are often the (rehashed) opinion of one man. A number of historians are beginning to challenge his take on things.

What do you suggest and of which historians are you speaking? :munchin

Besides Jimbo's comments, I can make a pretty strong argument that Islam is undergoing a reformation today, and that the reformation in South East Asia is significantly different and more agreeable than the reformation in the Middle East.

The Muslims of South East Asia are mostly interested in partaking of the modern world and the majority of them practice their religion in a manner not dramatically different from Christians in the United States.

I recommend reading as much as you can from as many different authors as you can. This is a good read, and it highlights some of the problems with relying too heavily on Lewis: http://www.mafhoum.com/press7/225C31.pdf

From that pdf:
As to specific historians, this guy, for one: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/humphreys.htm

You might look into books by Fouad Ajami, Rashid Khalidi, Gilles Kepel, Olvier Roy, Hamid Algar, and Ali Shariati.

Thanks for the suggestions, Jimbo. As an unrepentant info junkie, I have been known to hoard reading lists and syllabi. :)