OK, instead of Hitler and the final solution, how about Stalin and the Gulags.. or Mao and the reeducation camps.. :D

Some interesting reading regarding Muslims:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0303/p01s02-wome.html

http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...0412-1959r.htm

http://democracyiniraq.blogspot.com/

http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/

http://www.weeklytelegraph.co.uk/new...portaltop.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...0003_1,00.html

http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/articlenav.php?id=56

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/i...03101357373329

In my opinion, that is what the mullahs are doing in the madrasas.

Which is not all of Islam. Or even a majority of Islam.

Today

Madrassa enrollment is low and declining in Pakistan because of an increased number of options available to parents, and appears to be low in many neighboring countries, as well.

The commonality among these terrorists is that they are Islamic. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it appears that a damn sight more Muslims are attacking us than any other threat we face.

How many Muslims does it take preaching hatred and intolerance to harm us (and their own religion)? One? Ten? A million? 25%? 45%?

How many dead Americans represent an acceptable loss to Islamic terrorists before we can pin the rose on them? Are we willing to accept further casualties before we call the threat what it is, Muslim extremists and their enablers?

No one suggested going after Muslims who are not involved in terrorism, or supporting terrorism. I suspect that there are more who are ambivalent than anything else, but I also believe that there are more Muslims against us than assisting us.

You can keep citing the vast number of Muslims in SE Asia who are not directly involved and the commonality of Middle Easterners in this, but several nations in SE Asia, including the Phillipines, sure seem to have their share of Islamic terrorists.

I think that we should be using the multiple approaches that have already been articulated to resolve this, but anyone taking up arms or issuing fatwas against us opens themselves up for the hammer resolution.

Frankly, I would be looking to refocus issues to incite discord among the different Islamic radical groups, and help them kill one another off to their hearts' content. That is just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Wow! Well stated TR! My sentiments exactly! :lifter

The question which starts the thread is:

"Are we at war with Islam?"


I disagree. I agree with most of what you said, but I think there is an awful lot of evidence that the terrorists and their supporters (in any region) are a minority. In some regions, like SE Asia, they are a rapidly disappearing minority.

I thought THIS was interesting.

Interesting doesn't change my mind. A sympathetic reading of the Quran is no more legitimate or unbiased than a sympathetic reading of the Bible. Either book viewed objectively in the light of history and the actions their adherents shows a much more human motivation for any actions taken "in the name of God". Religion is always perverted to meet the requirements of whoever can get away with it. A violent minority can force anything on a complacent/compliant majority. A simple look at our own history will show that only about 15% of the Colonists initially supported revolution and splitting from England. Independance didn't become popular until it looked like the revolutionaries were winning. The French Revolution is another example of a (violent) minority forcing their will on a mostly indifferent populace. The Islamists may not be the majority, but it doesn't take a majority to wreak havoc and force change. As long as the majority do nothing, they are accomplices. It is only in opposition that they distance themselves from the goals and methods of the terrorists. A few thousand protestations of outrage, the paltry efforts of a handful of governments facing their own demise if they can't control internal disention - these are not the actions of a people (a religion that claims 1 billion + adherents) united in their opposition to the terrorists and their goals. Thankfully we may be seeing a groundswell change in Iraq as the Iraqi people start turning on those who would deny them a chance at a better life. And that has nothing to do with religion either. Bottom line - If we aren't at war with a religion, we are (or should be) at war with people who would use religion to their own ends. Peregrino

Hey Greenhat
 

More on your "PROGRESSIVE MOSLEM COUNTRIES": (This story had me rolling on the floor!)

Saudis Behead Three Convicted Terrorists
Sunday, April 03, 2005
Associated Press



RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi authorities on Friday executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.
The three men were beheaded in public in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.
Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.
Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on Al Qaeda (search), the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Usama bin Laden (search), and allied militants.
The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.

muslims against us not assimilating
 

Sorry this article is mostly about culture and apostasy and other intellekshual stuff, but I thought the numbers might be interesting.

http://economist.com/world/na/displa...ory_id=3809802

In fact eh.

What exactly is a "countire"? Is that manufactured by Michelin, Goodyear or who?

And you haven't seen me ever suggest that Saudi Arabia was moderate.

The Middle-East does not represent Islam, and the majority of the 1.4 billion(more or less) Muslims in the world don't live in Saudi Arabia or even in the Middle-East.

"The hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, occurs annually between the eighth and thirteenth days of the last month of the Muslim year, Dhu al Hijjah. The hajj represents the culmination of the Muslim's spiritual life."

I'm sure the millions and millions of moslems that travel to Saudi Arabia every year would agree with you whole heartedly GreenHat.

The middle east is islams heart and soul.

I take it you've been to the middle east GreenHat?