Great qoute. Are you aware of a video clip of this one posted anywhere?

Razor,

This just came out today:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313690,00.html

KHARTOUM, Sudan — British teacher Gillian Gibbons was convicted of insulting Islam for letting her pupils name a teddy bear Muhammad and sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation from Sudan, one of her defense lawyers said Thursday.

Ali Mohammed Ajab, of Gibbons' defense team, said she was found guilty of "insulting the faith of Muslims in Sudan" under Article 125 of the Sudanese criminal code, a lighter conviction than the original charge of inciting religious hatred. A charge later confirmed by a judge leaving the closed court session.

"I feel this is very serious and very unfair," he told The Associated Press outside the courtroom. Ajab, who also works for the Khartoum Center for Human Rights, said the issue was raised by "hard-liners who are always trying to make some noise," in an apparent reference to religious conservatives.

Ajab said his center would appeal the verdict, an opinion not shared by Gibbons' employer.

"It's a very fair verdict, she could have had six months and lashes and a fine, and she only got 15 days and deportation," said Robert Boulos of the Unity High School, confirming there would be no appeal. He noted that she would only spend 10 days in prison, having already served five.



This is wretched! This entire episode should really give Americans a wake-up call...Islamic extremists really believe this sh*t, and they want to bring it "to a theater near you."

Sorry sudanese folks, not going for the backward-ass burka look anytime soon...but thanks for playing! :mad:

And to add, I think We Americans have only one body to thank that "the I.E.'s" are not here already...
Our Brave Military.

Holly

Close the school and leave the country.

Let the Sudanese upper class educate their kids elsewhere, if that is their idea of freedom and tolerance.

Good riddance.

TR

I agree. If they want it, they can have it.

I also believe that our government should take a stance against the treatment of Ms. Gibbons as well. The feeling I got from the whole thing is that Ms. Gibbons was, in some of the Sudanese words anyway, an infidel; and it was obvious that they were looking for any excuse to punish the infidel. I imagine an American in that position would be seen the same way (probably even worse). Okay, "if'n that's the way they want it. Well, they gets it."

According to www.usaid.gov, the U.S. has supplied the Sudanese with $2.6 billion for humanitarian aid and reconstruction projects since 2005. Needless to say, we are the largest donor to the Sudan (although not the only ones...European Commission support of 54.3 million Euros for reconstruction is in the works as we speak or has already happened. My Google translator was not very clear on this). I believe we should withhold part or all of that money (especially the amount going to reconstruction...i.e. focusing on governance, health, economic growth, and education) as a statement to them that we will not support a country that supports that kind of treatment against its residents. It won't help Ms. Gibbons now, but it may have an influence on future cases such as this (money and words do make a difference sometimes).

I don't want to hear about Darfur anymore. The next person that mentions this to me (or that Islam is a peaceful religion) will probably not get a sympathetic ear from me. It is apparent that the Sudanese government can take better care of them than we can...one way or another.

Bandy

The problem with Darfur is the government is sponsoring (or at least allowing) the genocide. The issue with Darfur has always been with protecting helpless people from their own government.

This is compounded by the fact that the southern Sudanese who are dying are black Christians while the northern Sudanese who run the government and do the killing are Arab Muslims.

Thats a bit of a simplistic take on the situation, but the point is that the issue of Darfur has never been about helping the Sudanese government, so its not at all just to say "well forget Darfur then!" over this.

I hear you, but $2.6 billion of aid? Also, remember I said we should curtail the reconstruction part of it, not necessarily the humanitarian aid part of it.

Here is where my simplistic "forget Darfur" stance came from. My frustration over the Darfur issue is that, earlier this year, we had people in this country wondering why we weren't doing anything and demanding that our government do something to help the situation in Darfur. Earlier this year, I had people asking me why we weren't doing something in Darfur instead of being the "world police" in Iraq. Today, I realized that "not doing anything" in Darfur equals $2.6 billion. What more do you want?

I thought about it some more this evening, and thought about this scenario. Suppose an abusive husband/father has a wife and two children that he abuses regularly. Say that this person is also a sorry excuse of a worker as well, and won't hold down a job. So, because of his lack of character, his family suffers not only at his hand, but at his lack of work as well. They live in a hovel, little food, probably without adequate heat or plumbing. Further, the wife wants to get away, to have a better life, but just can't find the courage to do so just yet. She stays in the relationship, hoping for someone to help her and the kids somehow. So, do you sneak money to the wife & kids? Do you take them food? Or do you give the sorry excuse of a husband money to rebuild his house, educate him, and keep him healthy (analogous to the reconstruction aid we're talking about); and hope that this makes him a better person so that the effects of his change in character will filter down and help the wife & kids. I should reemphasize my stance that we should curtail the reconstruction aid, while continuing the humanitarian efforts that are going on.

Also, and I mean this from a discussion standpoint and not in a sarcastic way (I'm hear to learn, too), what would you suggest? If we stick with what we're doing now, will the situation at some point turn the corner because of the effort we're giving now? Is there another way (other than withholding or revising our aid to Sudan) that we could effectively show our position against the atrocities purported by the Sudanese government (and have it actually show some teeth as well)?


Bandy

Yep, they're real tolerant people over there, those hard-line Muslims.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314111,00.html

Thousands in Sudan Call for British Teddy Bear Teacher's Execution

Friday , November 30, 2007

AP

KHARTOUM, Sudan —
Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, protested Friday outside the presidential palace in Khartoum, demanding the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation.

They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, though they did not attempt to disrupt the rally. "Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted, and they called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site. Unity High School, which is closer by in central Khartoum, is under heavy security protection.

The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Some of the protesters, who an Associated Press reporter at the scene said numbered as many as 10,000, carried clubs, knives and axes — but not automatic weapons, which some have carried at past government-condoned demonstrations, suggesting Friday's rally was not organized by the government.

During Friday sermons, the Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons, saying she intentionally insulted Islam but he did not call for protests.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.

"This is an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.

Hard-line clerics who hold considerable influence with Sudan's Islamic government, have sought to whip up public anger over the Gibbons' case, calling her actions part of a Western plot to damage Islam. (now we're getting to the point - Bandy)

The conviction of Gibbons was seen as an attempt by the government to appease hard-liners, while trying to avert British anger by giving a relatively light sentence. Gibbons could have received up to 40 lashes, six months in prison and a fine if convicted on the heavier charge of inciting religious hatred.

Still, Britons expressed shock over the conviction. The Foreign Office said it was "extremely disappointed" and Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke with a member of Gibbons' family to convey his regret, his spokeswoman said.

"He set out his concern and the fact that we were doing all we could to secure her release," spokeswoman Emily Hands told reporters.

The case began with a classroom project on animals in September at the private school, which has 750 students from elementary to high school levels, most from wealthy Sudanese Muslim families.

Gibbons had one of her 7-year-old students bring in a teddy bear, then asked the class to name it and they chose the name Muhammad.

Each student then took the teddy bear home to write a diary entry about it, and the entries were compiled into a book with the bear's picture on the cover, titled "My Name is Muhammad," Boulos said.

But an office assistant at the school complained to the Ministry of Education that Gibbons had insulted the prophet by comparing him to an animal or toy.

Most Britons expressed shock at the verdict, alongside hope it would not raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.

"One of the good things is the U.K. Muslims who've condemned the charge as completely out of proportion," said Paul Wishart, 37, a student in London.

Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, accused the Sudanese authorities of "gross overreaction."

"This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities," he said.

The Muslim Public Affairs Committee, a political advocacy group, said the prosecution was "abominable and defies common sense."

Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans, said Gibbons' prosecution and conviction was "an absurdly disproportionate response to what is at worst a cultural faux pas."

Foreign Secretary David Miliband summoned the Sudanese ambassador late Thursday to express Britain's disappointment with the verdict. The Foreign Office said Britain would continue diplomatic efforts to achieve "a swift resolution" to the crisis.

Britain's response — applying diplomatic pressure while extolling ties with Sudan and affirming respect for Islam — had produced mixed results, British commentators concluded.

In an editorial, The Daily Telegraph said Miliband "has tiptoed around the case, avoiding a threat to cut aid and asserting that respect for Islam runs deep in Britain. Given that much of the government's financial support goes to the wretched refugees in Darfur and neighboring Chad, Mr. Miliband's caution is understandable."

Now, however, the newspaper said, Britain should recall its ambassador in Khartoum and impose sanctions on the Sudanese regime.

End Story

Looks to me like the Sudanese Muslims were looking for any excuse they could to make an example of the "infidel" who was only over there to "teach hatred for the Prophet Mohammed".

But, x-factor, I have to admit I was wrong about some of our reconstruction funding (that's what happens when you have knee-jerk reactions). Additional research showed me that the reconstruction money supports Sudan's Peoples Liberation Movement (an organization supporting democracy in Sudan). To withdraw funding would be to take the support away from the people that are fighting against the intolerance of the Khartoum-based government. I still think that sanctions against the Khartoum-based government are appropriate, however.

Reading and learning more.

Bandy

What do I think we should do about Darfur?

Initial Steps
- Sanctions on the Sudanese government
- Increased pressure on Chinese for supporting the Sudanese government
- Continued humanitarian aid to the south of the country
- Support to the African Union force to protect the refugee areas

If those don't garner results...
- Special operations to hunt down any janjaweed found within X miles of effected areas
- Embargo non-humanitarian commerce to and from Sudan (ie seizing Sudanese oil shipments to China)

Last resort...
- Support to partition the country (along the East Timor model)

x-factor,

I'm with you, but we have already imposed sanctions against the Sudanese Government. The problem is that we aren't following it. I think it's important to note that all of the things described below happened in 1997 & 1998, and that a relationship between Bin Laden & Sudan was suspected even then. In spite of that, lobbyists managed to stop the sanction's effect by exempting the most profitable Sudanes export: gum arabic.

http://www.american.edu/TED/gumarab.htm

U.S. Sanctions Against the Sudan

1. The Issue
In late 1997, the US Congress passed into law a bill that placed economic sanctions on the country of Sudan. The United States decided to punish the Sudanese government, which the State Department declared is a "sponsor of terrorism and a relentless oppressor of its minority Christian population." The original bill was meant to terminate all commercial activities between the two countries, however, this did not come to fruition. Though the Sudanese government has no active lobby in this country, while the bill made its way through committee, several lobbying groups made a sudden appearance and opposed outright passage of the bill. They did not oppose the sanctions as a whole, they took issue on the possible sanction of only one product, gum arabic.

2. Description
A substance that very few are aware of, but one that almost all Americans have come in contact with. Gum arabic, a derivative of the acacia tree, is an important ingredient in various products ranging from soda and candy to pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic's applications are wide spread, some typical applications are acting as an emulsifier, flavoring agent, and thickener in both food and pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic is also used in the newspaper and magazine printing process, allowing ink to better stick to the paper while keeping it from smearing, as well as protecting the printing plates from oxidation.

Gum arabic is used by a number of industries. When the companies that rely on it heavily realized that their primary source of gum arabic was about to be cut off, the lobbying groups that represent those US companies sprung into action – Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, and Mexico also export gum arabic, but Sudan is by far the largest exporter. The result of the lobbying efforts was an exemption placed on gum arabic allowing companies to apply for a license which permits them to import gum arabic from Sudan.

In August 1998, the attention of Congress was again drawn to the economic sanctions placed on Sudan, due to an alleged relation of suspected terrorist financier, Osama bin Laden, to many Sudanese companies - including the Gum Arabic Company, one of the leading exporters of gum in Sudan. However, most US companies claim that if there is indeed a relationship between Sudanese gum arabic exporters and Mr. bin Laden, they will cease all trade relations with those companies.

The reason why there is such a flap over gum arabic is because it is plentiful in Sudan; in fact gum arabic exports from Sudan compose 70 to 90 percent of the world's supply. The US alone imports 4,000 to 5,000 tons of gum arabic from Sudan, approximately US$9 million a year. In 1995, Sudan exported about US$54 million of gum arabic – about 11 percent of its total exports that year.

End Link Text

It sounds like we'll need to move on to Step 2 through Step 4 right off the bat.


Bandy

I propose a different approach to dafar and the sudanese people;

-Immediately cut off all aid and inform the world we’re doing so.

-Demand the middle eastern predominately muslim countries to get off their islamic asses and stop the islamic violence/killing.

-If that does not get quick results send in Special Operations to kill every member of the Sudanese government and anyone caught consulting/consorting with them. One should not attempt to negotiate with rabid dogs.

Notice I didn’t say capture/kill. I’m sick and f***ing tired of “us” being used to hunt the friggin henchmen, lets just kill those giving the orders and stop playing games with any government that advocates/supports/encourages genocide. Yes, I know it will never happen, American politics, left wing liberals, MSM will ensure we send a kinder more gentle message is sent to those wonderful islamic Nazis bent on killing everything non-muslim.

jimmy carter and jesse jackson, you’re needed in sudan immediately!

You forgot somebody!
 

Al Sharpton!...you forgot Al Sharpton!:D

TS,

Sir, Well said!

Someone far smarter than me could debate the pro's cand con's of this idea, but it sounds like it would work, no holds barred.

Also, could You run for President?...if there's still time to file?:lifter

Holly

...And I'd be happy to point them out for anyone looking for a pfffft.

The real power within the GoS isn't President Bashir, but rather a private interest section of security officers. China is also a contributing plague. China buys roughly 60 percent of the oil produced in Sudan, and supplies arms to the government to protect Chinese oil interests (And guess who has been sitting on the oil pipeline routes and drilling areas--until it is time to kill them and burn the village).

Then your militias are somewhat flavor of the week. Arab militias in the South often have had a tactical relationship with the government, whereas those of the North have a more ideological Muslim drive and belief that land is ordained to believers of Islam. GoS uses it as a constant mobilizer. Militia fighters come from a wide variety of backgrounds with no centralized motivation.

Then there are the over 60 armed rebel groups, in South Sudan alone, with the majority constituting splinter groups. Similar to the Janjaweed militias, operational autonomy creates rogue actions of personal interest over the interests and ideology of a greater cause.

A huge difficulty with addressing the situation is that reports have stated an increase of rebel committed human rights infringements over the last 2 years. This seriously blends the landscape and masks targeting. Rebel and militia groups, alike, are loosely organized in small mobile groups and typically do not hold territory. Janjaweed militias continue to operate with full impunity. All are becoming more difficult to control and disarm.

Rebel group, JEM, has a stronger and well honed ideology but lacks the military prowess of their “peer” rebel groups. The flip side is SPLM/A and SLA with greater military capabilities but lack an ideological basis to direct current struggles and to maintain functional and accountable systems of leadership. Militarist ideology and racism has overwhelmed the sight of their prior social grievances and political struggle against government controls. For all involved, initial causes of conflict have diminished being replaced by abstract ideological ethnicity becoming the active material and social force. Identity and ideology have been used to mobilize support for government, militia, and rebel interests.

So the whole damn place is whackamole FUBAR and largely out of control of GoS. But I'm not opposed to starting there for kicks and giggles.

Real progress
 

Fred Thompson for President
TS for SecDef!

Malaysia's muslims are having huge problems with the ethnic indians (tamils and hindu's) by tearing down temples (98 at last count) and a major riot two weeks ago in the center of Kuala Lumpur with 40,000 people protesting the way they were being treated..

Its all going south in this path of the world...

...

Upcoming Controversial Anti-Muslim Dutch Film
 

A few years back TS had posted regarding the murder of Dutch film maker van Gogh by Islamic extremists. A Dutch lawmaker, Geert Wilders, who is already under the protection of the government looks to continue van Gogh's mission of exposing the intolerance of Islam with release of a new short film next month. :munchin

Here's the article from Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313741,00.html

More islamic justice, murdering ones daughters
 

More beautiful teachings from islam and the islamic way of life;


$10,000 Reward Offered for Father Suspected of Killing Teen Girls
Friday, January 04, 2008

Foxnews.com

Authorities announced a $10,000 reward Friday for information leading to the arrest and indictment of a father accused of shooting his teen daughters and leaving them to die in a taxi.

An ongoing manhunt is under way for Yaser Abdel Said, 50, of Lewisville, Texas, wanted for shooting Sarah Yaser Said, 17, and Amina Yaser Said, 18, in his taxi Tuesday night. Police say they don't have a motive for the shootings, but believe a domestic issue may have led to the deaths.

A public viewing for Sarah and Amina Said was planned for 6 to 9 p.m. CST Friday in Dallas. Their funeral will be at 11 a.m. CST Saturday, also in Dallas.

Friends and Lewisville High School classmates of the Said girls posted photos and comments in a tribute to the sisters set up on the social networking site Facebook.com called "Rest in Peace, Sarah & Amina."

The page's creator, friend Jenny Lee, encouraged people to document their memories of Amina and Sarah Said.

"We love you so much, and miss you already," she wrote.

Amina and Sarah Said Information about memorial services and developments in the case are also included on the Facebook page dedicated to the teens.

"How could anyone do this to two beautiful, bright young ladies?" wondered one visitor to the site.

A local Austin imam condemned the murders on the tribute page, and in another note, a girl identifying herself as a former classmate of Sarah's wrote that Yaser Said abruptly moved his family to Lewisville a few years ago because he was unhappy about a boy his older daughter, Amina, was dating.

Loved ones gathered Thursday night for a vigil to remember the sisters. The girls' mother, who has been in hiding since the shootings, attended.

The victims' brother made a statement at the vigil that the deaths have nothing to do with religion.

David Tull, a spokesman for the Irving Police Department, told FOX News that there's not a specific motive but police are aware of domestic issues within the family.

Tull wouldn't comment directly on shootings being tied to reports about the girls wearing Western clothes and disobeying their father's wishes.

Click here to watch a video report by MyFOXdfw.com.

Brigitte Gabriel, author of "Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America," said the shootings point to an "honor killing."

"This crime has honor killing written all over it," Gabriel said. "The father was insulted and ashamed of how his daughters were behaving."

The daughters were bringing shame to Islam and the father took it upon himself to respond, Gabriel said.
"The father probably was seeing that this is going to bring shame on the family and he needed to eliminate that shame," Gabriel said.

One of the teens called 911 on a cell phone about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday and said she was shot, but she couldn't tell police where she was, police said.

Officers were dispatched to the area, which turned out to be about half a mile from the taxi, but didn't find anyone, according to reports. Police found the taxi with the bodies inside an hour later after a witness called and reported a suspicious vehicle in a hotel parking lot, police said.

Yaser Abdel Said is about 6-foot-2, weighing about 180 pounds with black hair and brown eyes. He was last seen wearing a black turtleneck shirt or sweater, a brown coat and tan pants. He is believed to be armed with a handgun, police said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320325,00.html

Parents killing their own children make me yearn for the punishment of "drawing" to make a comeback (hint: see the end of "Braveheart").

You mean like this scum sucking gang member who was on parole for stabbing a guy 15 times.........I have investigated alot of gang related homicides but this one is the most horrific and evil act I have ever been witness to.

http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/2...NEWS/112070130

Police arrest known gang member on investigation of child abuse resulting in death

Erica Grundin
December 8, 2007


By the time 13-week-old Johnnyce Hernandez was taken to the hospital, she was already dead.

Her skull was fractured, and she had at least four bruises, bruised eyeballs and rib fractures, some of which were in the healing stages, according to a police report released Friday.

North Colorado Medical Center staff in Greeley called the police on Wednesday afternoon after seeing her injuries.

Police say the injuries were not consistent with accidental injuries.

Greeley police arrested the girl's father, John Louis Hernandez of Greeley, on Thursday on investigation of child abuse resulting in death. He is being held at the Weld County Jail without bond.

A known gang member, Hernandez has a criminal record that includes two arrests for assault, three arrests for theft and two arrests for burglary, according court records. Police say he also was known as John Elworthy.

Hernandez was the last person to see his daughter alive, the police report states. He also was the first person to find her dead, according to the report. Hernandez told police that he does not know how his daughter's injuries occurred.

How to raise money for your next jihad
 

islam's code of ethics, the end justifies the means.:rolleyes:

Team Sergeant



3 Convicted in Islamic Charity Trial

By MARK JEWELL
Associated Press Writer

BOSTON (AP) -- Three former leaders of an Islamic charity were convicted Friday of duping the U.S. government into awarding their organization tax-exempt status by hiding the group's pro-jihad activities.

Care International Inc., which is now defunct, described its mission as helping war orphans, widows and refugees in Muslim nations. But prosecutors said the organization also distributed a newsletter promoting jihad and supported Muslim militants involved in armed conflicts around the world.

Emadeddin Muntasser, the founder of Care International; Muhammed Mubayyid, the group's former treasurer; and Samir Al-Monla, the president of Care from 1996 to 1998, were charged with tax code violations, making false statements and conspiracy to defraud the United States.

After a two-month trial and more than two weeks of deliberations, a federal jury found them guilty on all counts, except a false-statements count on which Al-Monla was acquitted. The fraud and false-statement charges each carry maximum sentences of five years in prison and fines of $250,000, while the tax charges carry a maximum three years in prison and a $100,000 fine.

U.S. District Judge F. Dennis Saylor IV scheduled sentencing hearings in early April.

"Today's verdict is a milestone in our efforts against those who conceal their support for extremist causes behind the veil of humanitarianism. For years, these defendants used an allegedly charitable organization as a front for the collection of donations that they converted for the purpose of supporting violent jihadists," Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Wainstein in Washington said in a statement.

continued:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

Max sentences
 

Great! I hope Judge Saylor gives these guys the maximum allowed by law.

In Massachusetts, does the max sentence mean they have to wait 6 months before running for office?

That would be Washington, DC, but only if you are running for Mayor.

In Mass they would be able to campaign during their incarceration....;)

Malaysian Islamic party still wants stonings
 

Brilliant! Does anyone that actually practices the islamic religion possess an IQ over 70?

Team Sergeant


Malaysian Islamic party still wants stonings
Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:25am EST

By Liau Y-Sing

KAMPUNG PULAU MELAKA, Malaysia (Reuters) - Malaysia's Islamist opposition party called on non-Muslims on Thursday to back its election campaign to apply strict sharia law, including amputations and stonings, for the country's Muslims.

Parti Islam se-Malaysia (PAS) is trying to broaden its appeal beyond the predominantly Muslim heartland at the next election, which is expected by political experts to be called by end-March and to be fought partly on the issue of rising street crime.

"The people want the best and there is nothing better than Islam," Nik Aziz Nik Mat, 77, told Reuters after morning prayers at his home in the largely rural northeast state of Kelantan, ruled by PAS since 1990.

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...11217620080117

Dutch government ready for fallout over planned anti-Islam film
 

If cartoons got a a hundred or so killed then the movie should cause an all out war.........:munchin TS






Dutch government ready for fallout over planned anti-Islam film
19 hours ago

THE HAGUE (AFP) — The Dutch government is ready for any possible fallout of a planned film by far-right MP Geert Wilders that attacks Islam as an "inspiration for murder," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said Friday.

"We are ready to react quickly, it is our role to be prepared for calamities," Balkenende told journalists at his weekly press briefing.

Earlier on Friday Dutch media had reported that the government had compiled a secret document on how best to deal with reactions to the film.

Wilders, the head of the far-right Freedom Party, announced in November that he planned to release a 10-minute film this month that will show that Islam's holy book, the Koran, "is an inspiration for intolerance, murder and terror".

Observers say Wilders might burn or tear up the Koran in the movie. In February last year the MP called on Muslims to "tear out half the pages of the Koran and throw them away".

The Hague fears a repeat of riots when thousands took to the streets in Muslim countries to protest cartoons of the prophet Mohammed that appeared in a Danish newspaper in 2005.

The protests left some hundred people dead, Danish embassies were attacked and Danish goods were boycotted.

continued:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...0E13_yHoKNRnSQ

Does anyone else think European immigration policies might have been a bad idea?

Any parallels here?

TR

At the risk of being politically incorrect....

This is just me thinking out loud and putting some observations down.

My understanding was that the large influx of immigrants to Europe was initially back in the 70's (?)....primarily from Turkey. It suppose it seemed like the right answer. Booming economy, a need for workers in the low-end jobs and service industry. These folks came in and were willing to do the work.

Assimilation into the general society seemed to be avoided in spite of government programs that emphasized learning the local language, etc. Initially the immigrants populated the larger industrial areas because that was where the work was. As time went on the immigrant population was more commmon in less-urban areas.

The connection to the home country was maintained, either through family ties or the fact that the groups tended to live in communities together. Whether this was intentional or not is probably open for debate. My impression was that the immigrants tend to form their own enclaves for mutual support. This creates a situation where they do not really ever blend into the rest of the population. The host nation population was quite fine with this idea since they figured that if they left the immigrants alone that their would be reciprocity.

As the economy slowed there was some pushback on the part of the native population. Competition for jobs, housing etc became an issue. This is aggravated by the fact that those coming into the country were willing to work for less than what a native-born citizen would. This applied to immigrants coming from outside of Europe or from eastern Europe in more recent history.

Then look at the birth rate amongst the native population and the immigrant population. (other threads discuss this in particular) The immigrant population outpaces the native. The immigrants continue to maintain a close tie to their native culture so the idea that the children will bring the family into the new culture gets dilluted since their exposure outside of their community can be limited.

Multiply these issues with those of the Islamic faith and you get closer. Much more dedicated parents (to their religion and culture). Children are raised within the faith (madras) through their school years so the attitudes and mindset remains much closer to the home country of their parents than it does to the host nation.


A parallell to the situation here in the U.S. is debatable.

Not having specific statistics, but I believe here in the US the Hispanic immigrant population is the major contributor. Social values tend to be closer to the U.S. and the children attend the local schools (even if their is a strong ESL population within the school). I don't believe there is a parallel with the Muslim faith since their faith is the basis for not only their religion, but their social values, education, form of government and rule of law.

IMHO the slippery slope is when the things that should be sending off alarms are suppressed due to the "political correctness" issue. If I say you should integrate into society, learn the language and be a participant through citizenship I am insensitive or a bigot. If I say that our laws supercede your customs, then I am out of line....

I start to mix the words "illegal" and "rights" into the same sentence then there is issue. You have to work on the first part before you are a beneficiary of the latter.

With the socialized economic structure where 'big brother' takes care of you, it sets new immigrants off on the wrong foot IMHO.

Considering the numbers that have immigrated to the United States in its long history, we've done a very good job of letting the natural course of time assimilate foreign populations into society. It takes a few generations for complete assimilation, but it's done the right way, where people have to work hard to earn their spot and for the most part they're also allowed to do so.

When socialist structures give handouts to new immigrants on one hand, then make rules for earning citizenship very strict, you get situations that affect countries like Germany and France. Effectively you're a second class citizen, but you still get government hand me downs, which gives zero incentive to move and integrate with mainstream society.

Bottom line is one should be free to work and earn a living and if one is a lawful person abiding by the rules and regulation of the state, they should eventually have the ability to earn citizenship. Europeans like to cut the cake and eat it too, but that leaves them without either.

The danger to our immigration system is pushing away those trying to get here legally by inefficient bureaucracy, yet letting others in through the back door without much enforcement. Add in government hand me downs, and we create a similar situation where new people don't have incentive (or are scared) to integrate.

That Dutch movie story may be a very bad omen. You've got a far right party about to butt heads with radical Islam. Radical Islam needs to be careful what they wish for. They're going to mess around and push Europe too far and wake up/strengthen some of the old European fascist ideas in the popular discourse.

On the immigration thing, the beginnings of Europe's immigration problems started during the post WWII reconstruction when they brought in huge amounts of cheap labor from their colonies (or from Turkey in Germany's case) to rebuild. Those workers stayed brought their families, etc. While that might sound alot like our issues with Mexican and Latin American immigration, I don't think it is.

The problem (at least in terms of the concerns TR brings up) really isn't immigration, its integration and in this respect, I don't see alot of parallels between the US and Europe. One of the US' greatest strengths is the way we integrate immigrants. Alot of that has to do with the fact that our country is based on an idea rather than an ethnicity. Lately you're seeing alot of countres (Canada, France, Britain, etc) trying to redefine their national identities as culture-based rather than ethnicity-based. For example, defining "being British" as loving "Shakespeare, cricket, and a proper sense of decorum" rather than having Anglo-Saxon, Welsh, or Scots blood.) This is something we do naturally because we're a nation of immigrants.

As an aside, its interesting to note that the 9-11 terrorists didn't become radicalized until they moved to Europe (Hamburg, Germany specifically) for school where they were isolated and ostracized from mainstream German culture and consequently backed into a kind of psychological corner where the only thing that provided a sense of identity or pride was radical Islam. That's central to the reason that Europe's homegrown terror threat is so much higher than the US'.

Those that wish to be integrated do so and those that don't, don't. Chinatown, little (whatever country of ethnic group-you fill in the country or ethnicity of choice), Russian mafia is not integrated, Chinese Tongs are not integrated, gangs of ethnic youth are a fertile ground for manipulation by non-integrated hostiles, etc, etc. No, integration is no longer a fact, it is a wish and until you have folks that stand up and place their hand over their heart when the colors pass, until you get rid of all those who would teach English as a second language rather than the primary language, until you take down the bi-linqual road signs, issue instruction manuals only in English, and have a huge banner attached to Lady Liberty's upraised arm that says English Only is Spoken here, then intergration will be a pipe dream. I have said this before and I will say it again, this nation is supposed to be a melting pot and not a friggin' stew. You want to immigrate here, then embrace our values or stay the hell home and fight to embrace the values you want in your country. If you do not have the guts to fight for what you believe in then you are not welcome to come here and set up your own new world to practice your old world beliefs at the expense of those who willing embrace our values. Cowards are not welcome!

I'm by no means a professional historian, but your observations sound rather familiar to ancient Roman problems as well.

Isolated and ostacized as a matter of choice?
I know it's hard for a male caucasian to be objective, but in many instances I get the impression that the desire is to transplant the native country into the new one (reference the good colonel's post). There are probably places in the United States that I would bet you would find that most of the flags flying are not the Stars and Stripes. That to me does not represent a desire to integrate into the society.

Ret10Echo - The way they reacted to European society was of course a matter of choice, but the fact that Continental Europe treats its minorities very poorly wasn't.

Col. Sir,

Very well said!:lifter

If only this were adopted into our MSM. It would let other Americans know that there are those out there with the same ideology, and all is not lost.;)

Thank You Sir, for posting this...inspirational, IMHO.

Holly

Afghan MPs back blasphemy death
 

Afghan MPs back blasphemy death

The upper house of the Afghan parliament has supported a death sentence issued against a journalist for blasphemy in northern Afghanistan.
Pervez Kambaksh, 23, was convicted last week of downloading and distributing an article insulting Islam. He has denied the charge.

The UN has criticised the sentence and said the journalist did not have legal representation during the case.

The Afghan government has said that the sentence was not final.

A government spokesman said recently that the case would be handled "very carefully".

Now the Afghan Senate has issued a statement on the case - it was not voted on but was signed by its leader, Sibghatullah Mojaddedi, an ally of President Hamid Karzai.

It said the upper house approved the death sentence conferred on Mr Kambaksh by a city court in Mazar-e-Sharif.

Concerns

It also strongly criticised what it called those institutions and foreign sources which, it said, had tried to pressurise the country's government and judiciary as they pursued people like Mr Kambaksh.

Some governments and international organisations have called for the sentence to be overturned.

A legal expert, Wadeer Safi, told the BBC that parliament was not constitutionally allowed to intervene in a case in the way the Senate had done, and he was concerned the new statement might prejudice the independence of the judges.

Mr Kambaksh's brother, Yacoub Kambaksh, told the BBC that the journalist was very concerned about his future and said he had not had a fair trial or any lawyer to defend him.

But the provincial governor in Mazar has said the case is being handled with due process.

Mr Kambaksh has at least two more courts in which to appeal and the sentence would have to be approved by President Karzai to be carried out.

He is a student at Balkh University and a journalist for Jahan-e Naw (New World).

He was arrested in 2007 after downloading material relating to the role of women in Islamic societies.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ia/7216976.stm

Human Rights Group Attempts to Stop Execution of Woman for Witchcraft
 

I ask again, is there anyone that practices islam with an IQ over 65?

Team Sergeant



Human Rights Group Attempts to Stop Execution of Woman for Witchcraft
Thursday, February 14, 2008

BEIRUT, Lebanon — A leading human rights group appealed to Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah on Thursday to stop the execution of a woman accused of witchcraft and performing supernatural acts.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch said in a statement that the kingdom's religious police who arrested and interrogated Fawza Falih, and the judges who tried her in the northern town of Quraiyat never gave her the opportunity to prove her innocence in the face of "absurd charges that have no basis in law."

Falih's case underscores shortcomings in Saudi Arabia's Islamic legal system in which rules of evidence are shaky, lawyers are not always present and sentences often depend on the whim of judges.

The most frequent victims are women, who already suffer severe restrictions on daily life in Saudi Arabia: They cannot drive, appear before a judge without a male representative, or travel abroad without a male guardian's permission.

Witchcraft is considered an offense against Islam in the conservative kingdom.

In Falih's case, the judges relied on a coerced confession and on the statements of witnesses who said she had "bewitched" them to convict her in April 2006, according to the group.

Falih later retracted her confession in court, claiming it was extracted under duress, and said that as an illiterate woman, she did not understand the document she was forced to fingerprint.

"The fact that Saudi judges still conduct trials for unprovable crimes like 'witchcraft' underscores their inability to carry out objective criminal investigations," said Joe Stork, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

continued:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330680,00.html

islam at work....

"Militants" or murderous psychopaths?"

This footage is all a year or more old, as lately these punks have been too busy runnin', hidin' and gettin' blowed up to stage many current atrocities, much less film them.

(WARNING: Extremely graphic and disturbing video DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE WEAK OF HEART. HUMANS IN THIS VIDEO ARE BEING MURDERED, BE-HEADED, AND BURNED ALIVE ALL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. THE VIDEO SHOWS A KID OF ABOUT 11-12 BE-HEADING AN INDIVIDUAL WHILE OTHER CHILDREN WATCH.)

Cindy's heroes at work:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32722810348478

Google has removed th video if someone esle finds it please link it here.

I haven't watched them.

The links may or may not work.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/191234.php