WILCO sir, moving out accordingly. Also, this isnt my everyday routine, it changes from day to day. Only thing that stays the same is weight training, mons/weds/fri, doing legs/arms,shoulders/chest, back respectfully. I alternate running or rucking every day, but never the same 2 days in a row, and never run less then 2 miles. I swim on run days or swim to replace a run if my shin splints are enough to slow me down. finally i do sprint work on mondays and fridays. So basically the only thing that changes is the PT portion 6 days a week. But like I said, i will bump the numbers up each week.

You will not make a 7:00/mile pace by jogging at all.

Find a local school with a 440 track and run for time. Most schools have tracks.

Get a partner who is slightly faster than you and run with him.

Search the board here for additional running tips.

TR

what you are doing is fartlek training...a good way to develop speed for endurance runners...not necessarily good for developing endurance...when done with a sadistic training partner (one with more endurance and speed than you) fartleks do a great job of developing the muscle between the ears...

a little light reading...

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/fartlek.htm

jog over, do your workout, jog home...just my $0.02...the run over and back will be a good warm-up and cool-down, assuming the distance is around 2.5-3 miles...

Went to a bar last weekend with an old friend of mine who is in the reserves. he brought a buddy along who is in the nasty guard as well. Got to talking to his buddy and when he asked what I do with the national guard he was impressed. I told him about comming over to my unit. He said " i dont know if i'm cut out for that, but I would love to work out with you, i really need to get in shape" Now he has been at the gym right by my side every day this week, hanging in there with me.

Every time I go to the gym, i usually talk to somebody. You'd be surprised at how many people out there would be willing to help you out.

Now go make friends :cool:

Ruck over.

Deruck.

Run.

Reruck.

Ruck home.

Repeat as needed.

Do not run with the ruck, and I would avoid rucking down steep, irregular surfaces.

TR

Is there perchance a road nearby? You could always ask a family member/friend to drive you on the road, and you could jump out at selected intervals (based off the vehicle odometer) with some marking tape to put on a nearby tree/phone pole, or with spray paint to hit a couple rocks so you know how far you've gone, and when to turn around. You could do the same thing by borrowing a buddy's bicycle with an odometer. Get your pacecount for 100m (go use a local football field), then use that to measure distance. That'll be good practice for land nav, and give your mind something to focus upon besides pain or boredom. Go to mapquest.com and enter your address and a couple local addresses, then use the 'get directions' feature to tell you how far away they are (by road). In essence, find another way to solve your current unknown distance problem; there are plenty out there if you think about it.

Sir the only problem I see with him using a football field, is that there is a slight difference in yards and meters (1 yard = 0.91 meters) which would make a 100 yard football field = 91.44 meters. Now if I remember correctly, and the lines are still marked, starting from the back of the endzone (not always the goal post either) and going to the end of the opposite endzone would make 110 yards, resulting in 100.5 meters. That has got to be the nerdiest thing I ever figured up, courtesy of www.onlineconversion.com

Also, basically what the professionals are saying is....think outside the box. You have an obstical, are you gonna let it stop you or will you see it as an opportunity for success? The ball is in your court, now get creative with it. I'll give you an example. At first I thought all I had to run around here was 1/4 mile tracks, or long flat marked trails. Well one day I was going to camp with some buddies in the local state park. Everything is pretty much flat here. Well, I get to the park and I'm driving through, and I notice that there are some serious hills. My 4-banger ford also let me know that these weren't small hills either. Next I noticed markings on the road, so I investigate. Sure enough, they where markings for 1 mile intervals painted on the road, to double check i set my odometer between marks. I also knew that local cross country teams at area high schools have meets out here, and that the trail extends all the way around the lake, covering hills, dirt, sand, gravel, pavement, and only half of the course is in shade. Where do you think I spend my time running/rucking now?

Sorry if i'm over stepping my small boundries gentlemen, standing by to push accordingly if needed.

well, you'd be hard pressed or hard corps to do three or four miles of fartlek...look at the variety of workouts on the website i posted...there are differing speeds that you can run at...when i was a platoon trainer in IOBC, we would start off with the first mile at about an 8 minute pace...second mile would be at a 6:30 pace, third mile back down to 8 minutes, fourth mile at 7 minutes, last mile at 8 minutes...within about a month, we were starting at a 7:30 pace, dropping down to sub-six minute miles, slowing to seven minutes, dropping down to six minutes, maybe six and a quarter, then slowing down to 6:45, with a cool-down mile at seven and a half minutes...i used to get called on the carpet because my platoons didn't call cadence...that's life at the Infantile Center...at the end of an IOBC class, my 32 year old ass was hard pressed to push a bunch of 23 year old lieutenants who had been trained by a sadistic SF type, but that was part of the reward... :D

that's one way to use the technique...another way is to run a mile at an 8 minute pace then run quarters alternating between a 1:30 quarter and 2:00 quarter...do that for two miles...run another mile at 8 minutes...after you toughen to that, up the pace, increase the distance...run a mile and a half at a 7:45 per mile pace, run a quarter at 1:25, another at 1:50...whatever works for you...the trick is you have to identify a training site to facilitate this...the distances don't have to be exact...you can run fartleks by time, especially if you have one of those beeping watches with interval timers...you can use fire hydrants, crosswalks, trees, any landmark to start and end your intervals...

if you do six miles of speed interval training, varying your speed, you will increase your speed over six miles provided you never run slower than your current speed...you can cheat yourself doing fartleks...i know some guys that run a really smoking interval, but will slow to 9 minutes between intervals...this isn't going to get you where you are going...fartleks are all about pushing your limits...if you normally run 7:45 miles, you can slow to, maybe 8:15 between intervals, but you'd better be pushing 6:45 or 7:00 to get anything out of the enterprise...

if you can find a track, or since you use a baseball field for speed work, you can do this...run four laps (on the track or six laps around the warning track on a baseball field) at a warm-up pace...spring the straight aways-foul lines, run the curves...do this for sixteen laps on a track (24 laps on a baseball field)...add this regimen to your workout once a week...

another option...time yourself around the track or the baseball field, while you are running at your PT test pace...on a track, you should be able to determine your mile speed...anyway, if you are running 7 minute miles, you need to jog a quarter at 2:00, run a quarter at 1:30 (your target speed should be no slower than 6:00 miles)...on a baseball field, you are going to have to adapt...maybe if you are running a 7 minute pace around the field, you'll finish a lap in 1:30...those are you base speeds and you need to proportion your speed work to hit a 6 minute mile...that would be a 1:15 lap around the baseball field...

fartleks are a sloooooooow way to build endurance, but an effective way to increase speed...to gain speed and endurance, you have to alternate your work outs...i don't know how far you are from reaching your speed goal, but i'd incorporate fartleks into my training a couple of days a week...one time do a mile at a quicker pace than normal, then next time you do them, increase the speed but shorten the distance for you speed intervals...

for goodness sake, if you are aiming at a career in SF, you are going to have to learn to improvise...take a can of spray paint...pace off 400 meters, make a mark...pace off another 400 meters, make a mark...do this along a route you normally run...

another $0.02 observation...quit looking at the obstacles and start looking for solutions...a Special Forces soldier spends most of his time overcoming inconvenience to get things done...no time like the present to start doing just that...

i hate to sound crass or coarse, but i got mine...you need to figure out how to get yours...but keep us posted, we can help...you are in a situation where you need to be creative...that should help in the long run...

Exactly.

screw the metric-SAE conversion...go run...do push-ups...make something happen... :munchin

What is this? Did RL take a new username? ;) LOL


BS2004-
You are not showing any aptitude for operating in an ambiguous environment. TO be frank, this topic isn't very ambiguous either. Are you really having this much trouble figuring out how to do your PT... Does it really take the advice of several experienced QP's just to make you sure of yourself? :confused:

I'm not gonna give advice about rucking... but I know you have been given enough to do in this thread to keep you busy for a while. When you hit your personal best times (in your opinion), then come back and ask another fifty questions on how to get over the plateau. Until then, you are just typing instead of running/rucking/strength training. If you have any more questions on this topic... I suggest you click this link first for your answer.
CLICK THIS

Good Luck

another good link for a lot of the new guys here looking for "the magic trick" is to check out THIS THREAD posted by Mr. NDD.

Did my first 1000M swim today.......bilateral breathing is the friggin' heat compared to what i was doing. thanks again to all the great advice on swimming.

I do have a question about the fartalik(sp?) running. Is it safe to say, you can increase the distance, or the time, or the speed, but never all three at once?

fartlek....is it safe? you will not explode if you increase the distance, speed and time on the same day...you may not feel like working out the next day, though...it depends...if you are in decent shape and pretty close to your fitness goal (6:00 miles or faster), then you could easily increase time, speed and distance from workout to workout...if you are struggling to gain speed, a more conservative approach should be taken...push yourself, firmly, but gently...then once you start to feel comfortable, push harder...hell, just go ahead and call him 'Sir'... :munchin

don't feel left out...same happened to me... :confused:

I fixed it. You could not see the original, the one now should be viewable.

Good Luck and :lifter hard!!!

Here is an idea. Call the Track Administrator, Track Coach or Athletic Director and ask what the public use hours are for the track. Always remember stay out of the first three lanes, nothing pisses off the track team more than someone they view as just some "Pin Chi" jogger getting in their way while they do speed work.

i see a guy doing push-ups...and i believe that would be Sacamuelas' advice to you...start with 50 or so and keep doing them until i get tired... :munchin

Is running until I throw-up, then working out right after until I throw-up a good thing? I think it might have been because of the chicken I ate about 45 minutes before, but I haven't worked THAT hard in a long time.

I can usually hold down anything that wants to come back up, but for some reason today was different.

no...you need food...you should either PT before you eat or give yourself some time to digest before you work out...were i you, i'd probably do a little research online...do a little Google-fu as TR might point out...

DAMN son, what the hell's the matter with you? Wait at least two hours after you eat before running. Ideally, you should workout before you eat or just eat a little power bar or something if you can't wait. You ate while watching tv and then went to run when the show was over didn't you?

no sir, i was sitting here at the computer, eating some chicken fingers, drinking water, and then i decided it's about as hot as it's gonna get today so I think I'll go run. It was all of about 40 minutes from the time I took my last bite to the time I hit the track. I just had a lot on my mind and felt that if I run extra hard, it would relieve some stress. Well, I ran a mile in 6:44....it normally takes me just over 7:14 a mile.

In the gym, I did a totally different workout. I ran into a Warrent Officer that I met through another friend at the bar this past weekend and he asked if I wanted to jump in with him and his buddy.....well me being young, dumb and full of.....eagerness jumped at the oppurtunity. Let's just say I was smoked harder then I've been in a LONG time. We had all the Air Force kids stairing at us like we where freaks. The cool thing is, he actually knew a few people from my unit, and almost joined, but decided flying helo's was better.

Anyway, I feel better now, just tired....more tired then usual. I'm gonna do some research on overtraining, one of my buddies mentioned that to me tonight, because he said I look like damnit and he thinks I might be pushing to hard. Of course, he's in a leg artillary unit...go figure.. :rolleyes:

Overtraining
 

http://www.buildingbodies.ca/Weights/Overtraining.shtml

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C377714.html

and finally,

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/i.../aa040600a.htm

Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome

Are you exercising too much?
Overtraining occurs when athletes try too hard to improve performance and train beyond the body's ability to recover.

The common warning signs of overtraining include the following:

Mild leg soreness, general achiness
Pain in muscles & joints
Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
Sudden drop in ability to run ‘normal’ distance or times
Insomnia
Headaches
Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
Insatiable thirst, dehydration
Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat, etc.
What do I do if I have some of these Warning Signs?

If your suffering from several of these warning signs go see your physician so that any potentially serious problem can be ruled out.

Otherwise, just stop & rest, take a few days off. Drink plenty of fluids, check & alter your diet if necessary. Maybe plan an alternate work-out routine so that your not constantly working just the same muscle groups. If you don’t receive consistant massage work, this would be a good time to get one or two sessions to help flush metabolic wastes out of your system and help loosen up. To prevent further overtraining injuries, check out some of the more common overuse factors associated. You may need to modify all or part of what you’re doing. If you suffer an injury during a workout, just remember RICE, this could save you alot of pain, discomfort, and a long recuperative layoff.

an effective PT program has to be planned...spur of the moment work outs might assuage any guilt you may have, but if you plan your work and work your plan, you will be better satified with the results...

There it is.

Not a scuba guy but the "plan your dive and dive your plan" is good advice for anybody.

ROTFL at NDD's reply.

Doc

Puking should not be viewed as a normal training event. I've only puked twice while running...once from dehydration (I was stupid and took nasal decongestants before a 5 mile formation run) and once from eating while running (powerbars during a marathon).

Read Stu Mittleman's book SLOW BURN. If I remember correctly, he recommends a training heart rate at 180 minus your age. Once you read it, you'l understand why. If you're forcing yourself to hold down vomit everytime you run, you're over training.

Getting in shape doesn't happen over night.

Quick Question
 

I have a real quick question, I searched through the board and I tried google but I can't really find the answer. My question is: Is it be better to do cardio work before or after I do my weights and PT?
Currently my weakest point is running/rucking, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance guys.

I've heard it both ways to be honest. This may just be an opinion type issue. I know growing up, in 6 seasons of sports it seems like we always did our weight training first before heading out to do sprints. I'm sure you can look harder and find something...like THIS


Took all of maybe 5 seconds with askjeeves

This question is also addressed in WM's book: Get Selected for Special Forces

Check out this thread: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=7239

If you don't have the book yet, get it. :)

--Aric

what does losing body fat have to do with rucking and running...? i've know some chubby guys with an ounce or two more body fat than i carried on my bony butt that could ruck me into the ground ( i could run circles around them, but i never wore running shoes and shorts when i thought someone might bust a cap in my direction)...the advise is not necessarily bad, but it is geared toward a goal of body fat loss...that is not the issue raised here...

now i am not sure what it means when one has weak points regarding running and rucking...it could mean one is slow, it could mean one has a problem with the weight of a rucksack when walking at forced march speeds...i suspect the issue is speed...if increasing footspeed while maintaining strength is the goal, i found split work outs to be best...stretch, warm-up, do resistance training and endurance training, then at another workout, do fartleks or other speed interval training...windsprints are really not going to get you where you are going...i recommend fartleks...

a static, cookie-cutter workout will not develop both strength and endurance...your program has to be varied to develop all the tools you will need for SF training and life beyond that...

if the problem is speed of movement with a rucksack on your back, i don't have an easy answer for you...i was 5'8", 140# when i went through training group...rucking was not my favorite pastime...( i retired at 5'8", 175#...a lot of time in the weight room...my run times suffered a bit but rucking was easier at that weight)...a combination of weight training, running, and rucking improved, although the truth be known, while i was never comfortable rucking at the speeds we had to move in SFQC, i never had a problem keeping up...there just twelve million other things i would have rather done at the time (exceptions involve connexes, wire brushes, grease traps, toothbrushes, push mowers and the grass around the 82nd Airborne Division museum)

rucking while maintaining adequate cardio fitness isn't a problem...achieving a weight that allows you to move effeciently with weight on your back and still run fast enough to score what you need on the APFT requires a fine balance for a lot of folks...i was fortunate...even after gaining 35 pounds (over 15 years in weight rooms), i still had whatever innate running speed i had all along, and carrying a ruck over hill and dale was easier...

so are you slow or are you weak...? :munchin

Sir,
My problem is neither speed nor weakness, its more of an endurance problem. My 2 mile run time is about 13:30 but once I'm beyond around 3 and a half miles I just die, I have a feeling it's just a need to get more mileage in.I have the same problem with rucking, once I'm beyond 6 or 7 miles I just hit a wall.
That's why I would consider it my weak point. I was asking the question from an endurance perspective, ie would it help my endurance more to lift then run because of the energy expended lifting qould make the run harder, or does it make more sense to run then lift a little later.
I still have at least a year before I plan on shipping out so there's plenty of time to rectify the situation. Thanks for the advice on the spilt workouts, I'll try those until classes start and see how they help.
Jon

i was running better than 13:30 as a 40 year-old arthritic with sciatica, usually dragging my right leg behind me...you could use a little more speed at 2 miles...i'd bet WM could tell you your odds of making SFAS with that sort of 2-mile time...probably in his book...

it seems like you have 2-mile fixation...at least once a week, put down the stop-watch and run longer distances...measure out five miles...don't look at your watch...finish five miles...once a week, when you are rucking, put the stop watch away....ruck twelve miles...don't look at your watch...during the other days, add speed and strength routines to your workout...as time progresses, add distance to your runs and rucks...once in a while, start timing yourself at the longer distances...

as far as making the run harder by lifting first, what you are more likely to do is exhaust yourself...keep strength training separate from cardio training for awhile...there will come a time when the nice folks at Fort Bragg will integrate strength and cardio training into some rather interesting workouts...right now, you need to condition for both, but there is no sense in practicing bleeding...that will come in due time...you will build endurance by increasing the distances you run and ruck...you need to be mindful of speed as well...being able to ruck 45 miles is great...if you can meet an imposed time standard...i know guys that could probably run farther than i could back in the day, but i could run a half marathon in an hour and a half or so and it would take them two hours...keep the standards in mind, as both time and distance are considered...

I know that I had success in increasing my run times by doing speed intervals on a track, hill sprints, and slow, deliberate form running drills to increase my running form and efficiency. Also, as lksteve said, I'd alternate speed days and longer, medium-paced (not slow, mind you; just a little slower than your 2 mile pace) runs where I'd focus on long strides and rhythm. Again, this worked well for me. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for you.