Seeing as how I haven't made it to a group yet or even started the Q, I can't speak on that aspect. But one of the cadre at selection told me because my tattoos can been seen in a suit, I probably wouldn't get to do some missions, especially ones revolving around an embassy. But when I got back, I was told by a long tabbed MSG from 5th Group that it all depends on the situations.

Read what you typed real slow
 

Read what you typed real slow - it ended up with "it all depends".

In most cases might not make a difference. In some it might - "it all depends".

Me? I want the best chance at doing everything I try for. I'd hate to be told "We'd like to take you but........"

If you're happy with it - so be it.

Having tattoos which can be seen while wearing business/business casual clothing WILL have an adverse effect on your getting selected for certain assignments.

Crip

I would hate to be told something like that...I'm just going to go to the "Q" course give a 110% and we will see from there. I already had a tattoo removed and it hurt more than the tattoo and looks worse than when the tattoo was there.

Tatoo's?
 

If the U S ARMY Special Forces wanted you to have a tatoo, You would get a tatoo in leiu of the Yarborough Knife....Regard's, tom kelly

Some of us make good life choices and some bad. Some you have to live with, some you can change. It's all about choices.

I think I'll go and get my "first" tat now......I'm thinking something SF.. maybe a SF Crest? :D

FWIW - SF is changing (again :rolleyes:). Within 3-5 years I expect door kicking (a very simple mission set that doesn't require much tact, discretion, or low profile attitudes) to be out of style. So get whatever tats you want (don't forget to concentrate on learning 9mm, 5.56, and 7.62 - no need to study pesky, headache inducing, CAT IV languages). MOO - Tats make it a lot easier to screen candidates for interesting missions. (Interesting is a VERY imprecise parameter! :cool:)

Yeah, but it looked so COOL when you got it!:rolleyes:

Agreed that life is about decisions, and that they have consequences.

TR

Why do you think this? Do you mean it will be out of style in general, or specifically in Special Forces? I ask this as a genuine question, not a challenge to your opinion.

Door kickers.....
 

Door kickers can be trained in a lot less time than two years.

Do you feel that is true for training guys to kick doors with the same ability as a DA-specific unit? For example, would you feel better with a certain famous Army CT Unit kicking down doors in search of a HVT, or a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army? Do you feel the skill level at door-kicking maintained by SOF is a crucial skill that does take two years or more of training and experience? Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

Again...
 

Again, if all you want to do is kick doors it don't take two years of training.

Language? All you need to speak is 5.56, 9mm and have a working knowledge of 7.62.

SF is getting back to its roots is what Peregrino was getting at. Door kicking, as seen in 4:00 youtube clips, isn't it.

Dont get us wrong, door kicking has its place but there are specific units which focus on that set of skills. And it isn't those skills which sets SF apart from the other Special Operations Forces (Ranger Regiment, SEALs, certain other DA centric units, etc.)

As for skill levels, dont be obtuse. Of course there is no comparison in the two you mention. However, there are selection processes out there for guys whose focus and drive is to kick doors; SFAS isnt it.

If you still need clarification feel free to use the search button. The differences in SOF and SF have been discussed here a time or twenty.

Crip

Understood. Apologies for the poor analogy. You're right (obviously), it was a dumbass move on my part to use those two examples. Thank you to yourself and Pete for the information.

Sr Engineer
 

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Point taken. Yet another example of why I want to be SF.

ROFLMAO.....

still have memories of the Ex's retort to COL T's infamous speech to the FRG (we don't need language training, we speak 5.56 and 7.62), "if that's true, why did you go away for 12 weeks of Language Training???"

Exactly. Back when (pre-H TO&E circa 1970), the JrEngr slot was labeled Demo Specialist - they wore specialist rank (e.g., SP5 vs SGT) and were authorized demolition pay because of the way they were slotted. It was changed to reflect the thinking Pete articulated in his post.

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

Roughly 50% of the guys on my team have tattoos. This seems fairly consistent group-wide. Will things change? Definitely. Group have changed in just the last coupe years; no telling where we'll be in 10.

I could care less if a guy does have a tattoo but if it is military affiliated, you have to ask yourself what would happen if you were doing some secret squirrel stuff and got caught. Think not only what would happen to you, but also your teammates.

Are not going to be non-selected over it? Extremely unlikely.

Tats
 

Tats are a form of identification, on a sterile mission they would be difficult to leave behind. I am still camera shy and have had all of my dental identifiers removed. But really not for a covert mission.

Really? :rolleyes:

What, you named your teeth?

As for door-kicking, a platoon of 19 years did a very good job in France, Italy and Germany with MIA1's, leather boots and battle worn uniforms.

Did not see it coming, but situational awareness and a salty platoon sergeant with the understanding that movement to contact is in direct proportion to terrain be it, open fields or living rooms in country cottages or small euro apartments.

Anyone can get a tatoo, but only a select few will ever earn "the" Yarborough Kinfe.

Congrats to every single one who has!:lifter

dated info
 

.

no one will care

Tats
 

When I went to EOD school a senior chief told us that EOD did not wear identifying insignia downrange. He also told us that if we should demonstrate such poor judgement as to get an EOD tat we could be certain of two things: we would be dragged down to the plastic surgeon to have it peeled off and we would be terminated from the EOD program.
Personally, I rotate the artwork hanging on my walls a couple of times a year. I can't imagine having artwork that I can't change, put away, or discard as my tastes change.

:rolleyes:

He obviously meant anything other than the big velcro patch on both shoulders that says, EOD. :rolleyes:

Times change
 

What can I say? I'm an old fart and my active duty time was in the 70's.
Back then the NATO standard was to paint the area around all four wheels a lovely red - which was a real pain to cover up when we went tactical! Go figure!

Changing Art work
 

You can do the same with tats, its just a more painful process.

Great statement Pete!

No tattoo restrictions for SF?!!?
 

Ok.. I'm on ODA right now and myself, Medic & my Tm SGt are the only ones not to have Tats. My CPT got selected with a arm band and now has his upper sleeves done on both arms. My Sr "Demo man" :D came to the team with his torso 80% covered & he has arm sleeves. My Bravo's, both have couple body tats & full sleeves that don't show while in ACU or MC. Both got selected with their tats. Jr Eng has two tats. Sr Commo has a few.

I never got a tattoo because of my father, who is a WWII vet and he has a globe and eagle on his arm and anchor on his left thigh. Once he was in his fifties you cannot tell what they were. I understand that the ink back then and the techniques are nothing they are today.

Around here at Fort Bragg there are 2 tatoo shops own by SF guys.

Like I have told guys before and what Peregrino is saying; if you want to do something special, or go work for other people and other special places. DO NOT GET A TATTOO. YOUR LIFE, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WORK WITH AND FOR; WILL ALL BE MARK JUST LIKE YOUR BODY IS. ONCE AGAIN, DO NOT GET A TATTOO.

The new thing in SF is tattoos.. SF is a reflection of the Army and that's where we come from. Tatoos has gotten a lot more acceptable in the Army.

Mtngoat,,,,,

Have you been drinking?

Ever heard about kiss and tell? :cool:

Designs are one thing. Insignia/ identifiers/ religious/ family names are just plain not smart. You minus well put your 201 file on your back window while you're at it.

I have zero tats, but that is a personal choice. I knew a fully qualified Tier 1 guy who got there with jump wings on his arm. That blows the "identifying" ink rumor out of the water.

For anyone worrying about being captured with identifying ink, I suspect there is a 99.9% chance of you not being captured. But if you are, I suspect there is a 99.9% chance of you being captured in uniform. And if you are captured on a badass behind the lines commando mission I bet there is a 99.9% chance your ink will not be the deciding factor in your treatment by the host nation.

I don't have any tatoo's myself but went to selection with guys who had full sleevs and they got selected.

I'm retired, so security is immaterial in my case.

I splurged on a $700. tat of Rambo yelling "They're all dead, Sir!!!" on a PRC 77 across my rock-hard left pec. :rolleyes:

That's IT! I'm buyin' in Osage Beach!!! I wanna see that!:D